LSA commercial MLM II lee speed?

[henry r]

It will be a while till I get my hands on it, but I paid my money and took my chances on what I think is a LSA commercial MLM II. it has had a rough life, plus at the very least it has been fitted with a miss matched bolt and been re-barrelled with a 23" 303-25 barrel with SMLE rear sight.

i'm trying to work out exactly what I have bought so I can work out where to go from here.

in particular any thoughts on the originality of the furniture would be appreciated.

if the butt and fore end are original i'll keep them fitted. if not, visually i'm not the biggest fan of Schnabel tips so eventually i'd like to go for something along the lines of a traditional BSA "lee speed" no2 styled stock.

pictures from the seller.


thanks
henry.

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[smle addict]

Very nice rescue! Looks like it has had a later MkII* or MLE Mk I bolt fitted (safety catch). Safety was not present on the MLM Mk II, and was added later to the MLM MkII*.

Attached are pics of my commercial LSA MkII. My guess is yours most likely left the factory in this same configuration.

Parts to restore occasionally show up. Patience is really the key in finding these items. I know of a man in Arizona who has four long lee's in various states of disrepair. All have good barrels and have been slightly cannibalized. I have been working on him for FOUR years to let loose with one I need parts from. He said he will eventually sell them, just not ready yet. So the wait continues....

Whether you attempt to restore or shoot it as is, I hope you enjoy it, and shoot it plenty!

best regards.

[englishman_ca]

Ya, the butt looks original. The forearm was probably the original that has been modified into the sporting unit as you see now.

There is not much of the original rifle left other than the receiver group and butt. A major undertaking if you wanted to restore it to back mil spec.

The action and trigger group with mag looks to be correct. The bolt is not the right version.

The Sht.LE barrel screws right into a long Lee receiver and indexes correctly. It is quite common to see sporters assembled with this combination.

Don't discount any such rifle that you might encounter as a Bubba custom. I believe that the South African Govt in WWII had a refurb program when they desperately needed rifles to replace their ancient long Lees. So They ordered a bunch of Sht LE barrels and furniture from BSA to assemble a hybrid. Long Lee rear with Sht.LE front. I always check for South African acceptance marks, a capital 'U' with a broad arrow inside.
Both BSA and LSA both produced Lee Speed patent rifles. Check the serial number on the barrel to see if it matches that of the receiver, there is a slim chance that the barrel might (might not) be original to the receiver.

I have a customised martial LSA MLE with Sht.LE barrel. My schnabble beats your schnabble!! Aint it a beaut??!!


With a bit of time and effort, a sporter styled along the line of the Lee Speed sporting rifles could be replicated.
Being a commercial receiver, it kinda gives you the licence to build anything you want without ruffling the feathers of military purists (but who cares?).

A great little project!

[henry r]

thank gentlemen. I think the first task will be to see how it shoots and go from there.

Englishman, yes I think your Schnabel wins, at least it doesn't look so, errrr.... phallic.

beautiful smle addict i'm a big fan of the well loved look. if I had a full length barrel I would probably aim to take it back to that spec. mine is 1047 so 102 before yours. what bits are you after? the chance i'll find them are small, but you never know.

it should have clicked that it would not have had the rear volley sight cut out if it was made as a sporter.

does anyone know how many commercial LSA MLM's were produced? were the cutoff's, barrel bands, nosecaps, sights etc stamped LSA? anything special or different about these parts on a commercial rifle?

while I did buy it with the intention of leaving it chambered on 303-25, doing the "lee speed" thing and using it. rendering what is left, un-restorable, would be a crime.

it all leaves me undecided which way to go.

having never had a project rifle I have yet to learn the pitfalls and how difficult the various exercises can be, plus starting with so little means (in a way) the possibilities are limitless.
but then the reality check from biting off more than I could chew with other hobbies means i'm fairly sure taking it back to original is a bigger project than I can handle at the moment. as it is I will need to set myself up to and learn how to reload to feed it.

thankfully I've been picking up 303 brass etc for when I get to the reloading stage and ended up with some boxer primed 303-25 cases by mistake. (super, IMI and 1 riverbrand for the cartridge guys). the gunsmith/dealer that will be doing the transfer and looking the rifle over for me also does custom reloading so i'll probably get him to do the first load or two.

[englishman_ca]

I believe that parts on commercial versions of rifles did not carry factory inspector markings, in fact, most if not all commercial parts have zero ID markings on them.

Now saying that, some collectors believe that many parts used by the factories (BSA & LSA) on a commercial build were pulled from the military inventory.
Possibly, but I don't buy it. If military, it would have a govt ownership mark (eg. broad arrow).
I am along the lines of thinking that that any commercial arm with that shows up with martial marked parts has had something switched out for repair.
Just my opinion from my many observations. I would be interested to hear others take on this.

[smle addict]

Good morning Henry R,

I second what Englishman_Ca added. My LSA appears to be have had a few parts swapped out over the years. Entire rifle has no mfrs markings, save for the magazine, trigger, and nosecap. The magazine is WD marked, with an LSA stamp. Nosecap is Sparkbrook (Sk), and trigger is BSA. Everything else is unmarked.

Stock is marked with the three C's, which I assume is "County Cadet Corps." It might have had some rough handling that necessitated minor repairs. Oddly enough, the Metford rifling is beautiful, with only a bit of frosting. Perhaps the rifle was used for drill and parade, and saw very little live-fire?

As far as parts go, I was looking for MLE handguard (rare, I know), and an intact stock (even more rare!). The man I know has those four long lee's. All are missing bolts and other bits. He has one with no buttstock or bolt, but has a handguard, good barrel, stock, and even a VSM marked rear sight. But as I mentioned, he's content to let them sit on a shelf in his garage.

Thanks for the nice comments on my MLM. It gets to see some range time once or twice a year. It unfortunately has an expensive diet: It will only shoot 215 grain Woodleigh bullets, which aren't cheap over here!

Update: I just looked at one of my CLLE's. It's a Commercial BSA CLLE Mk I*. Looks to have had a very easy life. All components are unmarked. Right side receiver wall is simply marked "BSA." Volley plate marked "CL" and that's it; no other markings anywhere.

[henry r]

ok I just won this on that auction site. I broke my normal rule and didn't research it properly first, so is it correct or is it too early?

thanks.

again, pics for the ad.

Attachment 75152Attachment 75151Attachment 75150

[englishman_ca]

It appears to be calibrated to 1900 yards, which if I remember correctly, would be for a post 1910 refit for the Mk.VII (HV) cartridge.

Standard rifle sights were calibrated to 1800 yards.