Anyone Seen These Drawings Before?

[mike1967]

So that could possibly date these drawings to the early 1970's.

Correct, the date at the bottom says 1973

[Peter Laidler]

Talking of which, I don't ever recall seeing a SUIT sight in Oz, certainly down at Battalion level. Did we ever have them? There was talk of the then 'special' Hythe sight for night shooting. We used to do that using standard sights which proved the need for the Hythe sights.

The trouble with modifying the rifle - or any bit of standard kit - is that it then becomes NON-standard and therefore omni user standard kit. Or as we used to call it, a one man dog!

[muffett.2008]

The first time I saw a SLR with scope was in 1969, next time I had one in my hands was in 1975. Both of these early ones had the rail brazed to the cover and didn't fail in the time I was involved.
Saw a heavier version made by Frank Taylor in the early eighties. (all three on service weapons)

Had a slide with rail in my junk for ages, might be still around, but then with our stupid laws........maybe not.

[mrclark303]

Had a slide with rail in my junk for ages, might be still around, but then with our stupid laws........maybe not.

Great to post a pic if it's still about...

[Woodsy]

Any L1A1/FAL scope mount that is attached to the body as shown in those sketches is doomed to failure. The body flexes quite a lot on firing and welds, brazing, or screws all fail in a few hundred rounds. During the NZ 'deer wars' of the 1970's and 80's we found that dust cover mounts lasted well (100,000 rounds +) provided that the cover is expanded/distorted slightly to be a very snug fit in the body grooves and a dot of gas weld is added to the rear of the cover and carefully file fitted to remove any linear movement during firing. FAL's and L1A1's (brand new from Lithgow) were used for commercial venison recovery from choppers. Barrels were replaced at about 20,000 rounds, and FN sold us replacement FAL bodies which were replaced at about 100,000. The bodies would crack between the body pivot pin hole and the locking shoulder hole (I still have a pile of cracked examples). Properly adjusted and cleaned rifles would last a good bit longer than dirty rifles with the gas regulators closed up. Some of our shooters were as rough as guts on their gear!

[Peter Laidler]

I accept that we didn't have deer wars here Woodsy but we did have about 100,000 ham-fisted squaddies. But the thought that a thin top cover mounted telescope lasting 100,000 rounds is absolutely and totally at odds with how it happened in major trials here. The attrition rate of SUIT and IIW covers through cracking where the top-hat mount was fitted was always being investigated. There will ALWAYS be clock wise (or anti clockwise, depending on where you are.....) moments about that thin cover, tearing away at any load fixed to it caused by momentum or recoil! It's called fatigue

Back again after some deep thought. The nearest effect I can think of to semi replicate the effect I speak of it this. Look at any MGB door (or VW Golf Cabrio) and have a look at the door skin, where the front upright/vertical window channel sits against the door. There will (?) be a split. And no matter how careful you are closing the door, no matter how careful you adjust the window mech or adjust the door shuts or the top seal, it WILL split. What's more, that section is double skinned too as the top of the panel is rolled over. This isn't corrosion, it is metal fatigue caused by........ I won't go into the technical aspects of this because this is the expertise of our friendly metallurgists (where are you Breaky and JM). But in short, it is caused by the constant flexing of the thin weak door panel that supports the upright at that point and is probably thicker than the steel of our cover! There is a word for the effect but I can't think of what it is - but insidious metal fatigue seems to fit the bill.

You can reinforce the area behind the upright window channel with a spot welded plate. You drill the split to do what it does. You can weld or braze the split up you can wave a magic wand over it and call in the witch doctor but guess what................. Or you can just do what everyone else in the known universe does. You can strengthen it, paint it and then cover the split area with a door mirror and forget it. The point I'm, making in a practical way is that whatever you do, the problem remains. Whether it's a heavy thin skinned door thudding shut imparting rotary energy to the upright causing it to recoil when the door hits the buffers (yep, that's what it's doing....) or you attach the heavy weight to the thin top cover and imparting rotary energy in another way.

As for mounting anything to the body ........ Let's leave that for another day

[mrclark303]

Good way of putting it Peter, I guess that's why the whole sprung metal top cover/ mount combo was ditched for the solid aluminium railed jobs in the modern era.

I have one such beast, never used it, (to me), it's like fitting an electronic dashboard in an MGB, sticks out like a bulldogs wotsits, totally out of place on a classic rifle.

The "will it/ won't it shear off and eject" possibility this time out, when I use the SUIT is all part of the fun!

[Woodsy]

In 1981 I purchased an FN FAL factory sniper rifle with the dust cover mounted Hensoldt trajectory-compensating scope. I have used that rifle extensively for commercial meat shooting, hunting, practical rifle competition, and plinking. When I bought it 35 years ago it did 3 shot 0.75" groups at 100 metres with Aussie F4 7.62x51 ball. Admittedly, I have looked after it but it still shoots to the same level of accuracy today. When I was doing the dust cover mounts (not only during the 'deer wars' but also more recently for practical rifle shooters) I crinkled the edges of the dust cover with centre punch to make the thin groove fit very tightly, and also spread the sides of the cover so there was plenty of lateral tension, plus the small weld previously mentioned to remove linear movement. A full-length steel Weaver style rail was screwed from the under side and silver-soldered to the dust cover. Having said that, the modern commercial aluminium clamp-on dust cover mounts are very good, and are more rigid than the dust cover conversions.

I don't believe anyone could make a truely 'soldier-proof' item. When the sqaddies put their devious little minds to it, nothing is safe! It is a shame that they do these things to the items that could save their lives!

[mrclark303]

Evening Woodsy, any Chance of a few pics of your adjusted top covers? Sounds like you have rather extensive experience regarding workarounds with top covers.. interesting stuff

[tankhunter]

I would like to Publicly announce here & now.

That should I ever procure an MGB Car. I will NEVER mount a Telescopic sight, or indeed.
A Pair of Bulldogs 'Wotsits' on it!.........

I thank You!........