deactivated L85A2 ??

[mrclark303]

Morning all,

I understand that a small number of L85A1's winged their way into civvy street for deactivation, after all some were sold to Bolivia the Bahamas etc, but am somewhat mystified how an A2 could have, baring in mind the current arms control hysteria mindset that's been in force for the last 20 years!

Deactivated rifles and assault rifles

About halfway down the list guys.

It might be an A1 with an A2 gas tube (perhaps the most likely solution to the conundrum) as we can't see the info on the rifles side.

Interesting though .. Has anyone seen an A2 offered for sale anywhere else?

Information

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[Peter Laidler]

Just how you described it. An A1 with an LSW barrel(?), A2 cocking handle plus a few whistles and bells. And as you can't strip it you can't see whether it's an A2. And who told you some were sold to Bolivia? I think someones just trying to make a quick buck.

[mrclark303]

Morning Peter, I believe Bolivia bought (or were gifted) a small number of A1 rifles early on with the hope of a substantial order that never materialised. Can't remember who told me that, I will have a think ..

I seem to recall that this was also stated as the origin of many of the deactivated A1's on the UK market, as they had been sold off over the last 10 years or so.

[pbsmg]

No chance it is an A2. If it was, they would have shown the large A2 marking that is in front of the Butt Plate.

[Peter Laidler]

When our A2's went through ABRO for phosphating, the big HKA2 logo disappeared PB! The ejection opening port is A1 too.

[mrclark303]

When our A2's went through ABRO for phosphating, the big HKA2 logo disappeared PB! The ejection opening port is A1 too.

Well spotted Peter, I was trying to see if the port was the "relieved" modified A2 standard, just can't see on my laptop, pics too small/eyesight to poor.

---------- Post added at 03:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:33 PM ----------

Pure guesswork here, but I wonder if certain replacement parts (that could read across both marks) for foreign users of the A1 were supplied by HK, hence the A2 gas tube??

[Peter Laidler]

The A2 gas plug and gas cylinder could be used as a set on and A1 as could the piston and spring assembly plus many other bits but just so long as the associated bits were changed too. Too many parts to quantify here. There was a small - and ill fated - plan to initially use up existing A1 spares first. But really, what would it achieve? So it was dropped. The A1 declared obsolete quite quickly and the total change to A2 went ahead quite smoothly. I'm sure that it's no secret now but there was a bit of operational overlap when A1's went to Afg in error when the spares supply chain was then geared up for A2. Sort of quickly fixed.

If I was a betting man I'd say that the seller has just acquired an A2 gas tube off that auction site or blacked it using a steel activated dye. It doesn't last long to remove it given a crunchies capacity to polish anything back to bright shining steel with some scotchbrite.

Back to the H&K A2. To be brutally honest, there were some changed parts, such as the gas system that were said to be changed for better material or tighter tolerances, or '....it's in the runes.....' or by reasons of the full moon or witchcraft that we at the technical end of the system never really got to the bottom of on the basis that there wasn't a problem there anyway. But the man at H&K was like the man from Del Monte. If he says yes, then it's yes!

[Sentryduty]

It doesn't last long to remove it given a crunchies capacity to polish anything back to bright shining steel with some scotchbrite

Well shiny is the mark of professional cleanliness, (sarcasm) it's hardwired into troops from day one. In Detention Barracks (DB, CDN Military Jail - Edmonton) everything must be so, "guests" are given among other items, a galvanized steel bucket, like kind you would feed hogs with, it must be polished to mirror. The can of polish must stripped of paint and be polished, and so on.

Never a guest myself, but all western area soldiers get a tour when they are new.

The system was a pretty good reformer overall, I only know of one individual that defeated it, but that is a story from my time running the Regimental Police section, and for another day.

[mrclark303]

Ironically, by claiming it to be an A2, is just the sort of thing that gets you a 5am wake up call from the MOD Police ... ello, ello ello, whats all this then!

[tankhunter]

Exactly!!!!! And that is DEFINATELY what will happen, if you put anything that is in Current Service through the London Proofhouse!!!!!

The Proof Master is under instruction, to report the Owners/Dealers details to the M.O.D Police of ANY Current weapon put through for whatever reason.
And it WILL be checked out, believe Me!!!......

A Sec.5 Dealer I have mentioned on here before. Made up some A1 L85's as Deacts. From left over spares/ Parts, he LEGALLY Obtained from Enfield. After it has closed.
The only thing he didn't have , were trigger Mech housings. So he got some 'Dummy' ones made up, to complete his projects for sale.
Obviously, these would NOT have had serial numbers on them, so He made his own up. Where you would have = UE, or UN as letter prefixes to the Serial Number.
He put letters on that were the area of his Address & then a set of numbers. All LEGAL, & logged in His register.

One of these 'Deacts' surfaced for resale, a while after he had sold the batch. & it came to the notice of the M.O.D Police, who had previous dealings with him on other Matters.
So they had his contact details, & duly phoned him. To enquire about the serial numbers, as they were 'Puzzled' at the layout of the nomencleture!......
When he explained the letter prefixes, & why it was done. BOY! Were they relieved!.....it saved them a very indepth investigation & a lot of potential Traveling time!

To My knowledge, NO L85A2's have been released from M.O.D Service. Indeed, the current policy is NO Small arms to be released to the UK Public in General.
IF you are an Established manufacturer, & would be supplying a contact for parts or other equipment. It is possible to have on loan/ possibly obtain a 'sample' of a particular 'Equipment'. For reference/ trial fitting purposes.
A company I used to work for, did this fairly regularly. When working closely with the M.O.D. I don't know if this mutual agreement is still in place today. But I would imagine, in the spirit of cooperation. & this being the case to get certain parts/ equipment's manufactured, It would make sense.

But then again, WHEN. Has any Government department operated on common sense?....