Bren L4A3

[Vincent]

The scarcity of parts kits here at the moment is partially due to the rising popularity of deacs in Europe. It has driven prices of semi-auto guns made from those parts kits like the Bren, MG42 and BAR up considerably.

Here the prices of registered transferable machineguns have risen considerably. It’s a situation very much like what you are seeing with old spec deacts in the UK. When the law changed here no more transferable machineguns could be produced. The ones that were out there at the time are it. There will be no more made. The limited supply has led to ever increasing prices and there’s no end in sight. The only way prices could come down is if the law was changed to allow new production of transferable machineguns and the supply was increased. I am betting that’s not going to happen in my lifetime.

Over here the relaxation of firearms laws is very rare. Increasing restrictions is the norm and as much as I dislike that it has created some great investment opportunities.

That’s how it has worked over here. Things may be different there, but I have a feeling Peter is correct. Once the supply of old spec deacts is gone the prices will climb to staggering levels.

[Flying10uk]

Vince, we've also got the added potential problem on the horizon in the very near future that, as things stand at the moment, when/if the new legislation comes into force soon we will not be legally able to sell or transfer any of the old spec deacs. The only way that they will be able to be legally sold/transferred under this new law is if they are brought up to the new E.U. deac. spec i.e. welded solid. Off course common sense may yet prevail and this new legislation not adopted because I don't think that anyone has yet figured out how it would be enforced or policed.

I have not heard of any criminals or terrorists ever using reactivated Bren guns and so don't see the need to increase the amount of deactivation work done to them under the new E.U. spec. I don't believe that AK rifles,of the type that have been used by terrorists, are deactivated under the new E.U. spec to any greater degree than they were before under the old U.K. spec, but I stand to be corrected on this.

[tombear]

Well this puts me in a quandary. In the last few years I've slimmed down my collection to just the various small arms carried by family members, to go with uniforms and sets of field equipment. Recent research has confirmed that the regiment my Dad was in in Malaya in 1958-59 ( 1st Bn Sherwood Foresters) were still using Mk 3 Brens and not L4s alongside there L1A1s. Luckily I've a nice Mk 3 but it does make my ex Kiwi L4A4 and all the L4 related kit surplus. Now, do I get shut now and get something more relevant while I still can or do I hang onto it in the hope that all the EU stuff is not going to be enforced after we've left?

It's a lovely bit of history and I've collected all the bits that it's legal to replace in unissued condition ( not forgetting a pint of sunkronite that's hidden somewhere wrapped in numerous sealed placki bags so the can can't rust ) but it don't fit in the collection and its tying up money that could go on other bits that I'd like.

I'll have to give it a good think.

ATB

Tom

[Flying10uk]

Unfortunately, tombear, I am not a Clairvoyant and can't predict what nonsense our politicians are going to agree to before we leave the E.U. or what nonsense they'll think up for themselves after we've left. But if it's any help one well known U.K. dealer told me that they were keeping their vast stocks of deactivated weapons which have been done to the U.K. spec in storage for the time being and will not bring them up to the new E.U. spec at the moment. I believe that this is in the hope that they will be legally permitted to sell them at some point in the future. If this is the case machine guns deactivated to the old U.K. spec may well see a significant increase in value.

Personally, I have never purchased any deac or other militaria item for investment purposes. My interest lies in the obvious military history but also the design and manufacture of the item.

[tombear]

Cheers that's handy to know!,

I've never bought them as a investment either and if it was relevant to the collection I'd definitely be keeping it but it ain't so at some point I will get shut and buy something that is. The only pieces I don't have that would now be relevant would be a Great War Dated SMLE and a old spec Victory Model Smith and Wesson with UK acceptance markings. Times and interests change which is why the 4 marks of 7.92 Besa went and the 4 models of Vickers-Berthier LMG. I'd pretty much painted myself into corners research wise having picked the old Pattern Room library clean before it was dumped on Royal Armouries Plc and the good times ended. I could cry. With the old MoD staff I had free photocopying and could sign stuff out to scan at home. Mind I was concentrating on accessories, mounts and what not, nowt that could be used to manufacture anything illegal so they let me have a free run of the place. I suspect that was partly to annoy the Royal Armouries staff they shared the rooms with, they always looked shocked when then found me nose down in a box in the climate controlled lock up rooting through stuff that hadn't been opened since they had shipped it up from Nottingham.

ATB

Tom

[Peter Laidler]

Don't be embarrassed to say so chaps...... but regards to your not collecting for investment purposes, I bet you weren't buying simply to line the retailers pockets OR to lose ooodles of money afterwards either...... Nope, thought not!

Regarding the lawfulness or otherwise of being able to sell after the rules change, then that's another thing entirely. But if this is to be the case, then like many other examples where this 'grandfather' or 'keep and own' clause is included, it will have to be so tightly sewn up or worded that it'll be effectively meaningless in real terms.

[Flying10uk]

If I buy any piece of militaria item, be it a deac or other bit of kit, I buy it because I wish to own that particular item for the reasons I've already mentioned. I do look around a few dealers to see who offers the best item at the best price but never give much thought as to how much the item may or may not be worth in the future.

[mrclark303]

Don't be embarrassed to say so chaps...... but regards to your not collecting for investment purposes, I bet you weren't buying simply to line the retailers pockets OR to lose ooodles of money afterwards either...... Nope, thought not!

Regarding the lawfulness or otherwise of being able to sell after the rules change, then that's another thing entirely. But if this is to be the case, then like many other examples where this 'grandfather' or 'keep and own' clause is included, it will have to be so tightly sewn up or worded that it'll be effectively meaningless in real terms.

As we have all discussed before Peter, I agree, there isn't the will, money or manpower to chase shadows. The police have far more important "real" issues to deal with than to criminalise law abiding collectors, who's deacs represent no danger to the public.

I am not a betting man, but if I was, I would say post BREXIT, the retrospective trading of old spec deacs will be quietly reinstated (or at least ignored).

[Flying10uk]

I would suggest that it will be very difficult for the police to prove, to the standards required in court, that a deac has changed hands after any specific date.

[Brit plumber]

At last! Note the partial Mk4 machining.