Brazilian State Police tsmg

[browningautorifle]

But we didn't purchase the shorter magazines

We had the tens and issued them on a basis of one to three. Each user had one. They were a special mag, not a cut down...

[can14&]

Canadian sterling magazine were in ten round without rollers, same as the 32 round

[browningautorifle]

Canadian sterling magazine

Well, ours were the Sub-machine gun C1 9 mm...and the long mags are 30's not 32's. Yes they have a stamped follower, not the rollers. Those are in themselves an engineering marvel. I have a set here sent by a friend some years ago which demonstrates a tapered set of rollers, that are set at an angle to each other on another angle while moving up an arctuate magazine body.

[tankhunter]

But we didn't purchase the shorter magazines though Tankie nor did the RUC. Has anyone noticed that the Sterling short magazines were simply standard magazines cut short, the fluted ends pressed flat and reworked to take existing retainer. You can only cut SMG barrels back so short and you run out of '.......equal and opposites......'. Then you have to start....... I won't go into it!

Pete, Yes I know we never used them in Military service. But they were available to anyone who wanted to but them. Aimed at the Police & Security market generally.

When I worked at a Certain Weapons Manufacturer Facility, Post Military service. The Late frank Waters was our chief design/draftsman there. He came over to Us when Sterling Ceased Trading/manufacturing. in the course of enquiring with him, over many items made/ marketed by Sterling during his time with them. One of my questions concerning the 10 & 15 rounds mags. He simply laughed & stated the same as you. THIER shorter mags WERE simply cut down 32 rounder's! Makes sense when you think about it logistically! The reason I asked, was I had cut down a mag to 10 rounds myself for my own collection. It was gratifying to know. This was all the manufacturer had done as well!

[can14&]

I think Sterling and the Canadian Government had issues over the magazine. That's why we didn't use the
rollers and went to stamped follower,30 round magazine. Royalty issues

[browningautorifle]

Royalty issues

I believe that would be about correct. I've also heard something like that. Ours still worked just fine, sand, jungle, snow...all went into them fine and they worked.

[Peter Laidler]

I never really got to the bottom of why Canada went it alone with the magazine follower. I don't think it was purely a royalties question because Canada was given free reign to 'copy' the Sterling SMG and manufacture it in any way she saw fit. The only real sanction - if it was even a sanction - was that any parts that were not changed, such as butts, pistol grip, barrel etc initially and as spare parts thereafter, had to be purchased from Sterling. Also, Canada was not permitted to re-sell or make guns for resale on the open market. Canada was the only manufacturer to stick to the letter and spirit of the agreement according to Sterling.

As for magazines, Sterling allowed Lithgow to make Sterling magazines for the F1 gun without royalty payments of any kind. But, once again. Only for their own requirements. I seem to remember being told that the Lithgow made Sterling mags were to remain unmarked. Why is anyones guess! Anyone got unmarked mags?

[browningautorifle]

Our followers would be a cheap stamping compared to the time consuming roller assembly I should think. I can't say but the rollers must have worked flawlessly through all conditions too. I just know that unless there were bent lip issues, our worked well.

[Peter Laidler]

One little known feature of Mr Patchetts superb Sterling magazines that you might notice is the fact that the actual platform and rollers never actually touch the feed lips. Little internal knibs keep the platform and rollers JUST short of the lips and this prevents the possibility of the spring loaded rollers continually banging up to the lips when the mag is emptied. It is this reason why the Sterling mags can make use of thinner material that doesn't need a reinforcing sheath - like the Sten.

Sterling had the manufacturing process AND price of the magazine assembly down to a fine art. TOTAL cost to Sterling in 1986 was £3 (+ a few pence) according to batch size, but usually 3,000 at a time. Factory gate price, £11

[Lee Enfield]

I never really got to the bottom of why Canada went it alone with the magazine follower. I don't think it was purely a royalties question because Canada was given free reign to 'copy' the Sterling SMG and manufacture it in any way she saw fit. The only real sanction - if it was even a sanction - was that any parts that were not changed, such as butts, pistol grip, barrel etc initially and as spare parts thereafter, had to be purchased from Sterling. Also, Canada was not permitted to re-sell or make guns for resale on the open market. Canada was the only manufacturer to stick to the letter and spirit of the agreement according to Sterling.

As for magazines, Sterling allowed Lithgow to make Sterling magazines for the F1 gun without royalty payments of any kind. But, once again. Only for their own requirements. I seem to remember being told that the Lithgow made Sterling mags were to remain unmarked. Why is anyones guess! Anyone got unmarked mags?

The mags I've seen which were identified as Australian mags were a copy of the patent violating British "Ministry of Supply" magazines....which Sterling apparently didn't sue the UK MOS over.

From reading your excellent book, I would point out that Australia's issue was with the UK Ministry of Supply/Enfield rather than Sterling....MOS/E was claiming intellectual property over the magazines, when it was clearly Sterling intellectual property, James E explained the true situation of the ownership of the magazine patents to Aus Mil Attache and gave the Auzzies a (verbal??) license to manufacture the magazines.

The other thing that I would point out is that James Edmiston did the deal with Australia in the early 1970s, while the Canadian negotiations occurred in the 1955-58 era - different owners, and different world situation for Sterling.

Another issue may have been the fact that the cost of manufacturing the Canadian mag follower MUST have been many times less expensive than the Patchett roller follower.