Remington UMC Information

[Leggett71]

Looking for resource information on Remington UMC 1911's. Does anyone know of a good reference source? New 1911 to me.

Recently picked up an Augusta Arsenal rebuilt mixed UMC in the kraft box with 1963 dated oil paper, cleaning rod & brush.

Frame - early manufacture
Slide - late manufacture - single line
Barrel - Colt PH marked
Mainspring housing - no E stamp
Trigger guard - Partial E stamp left - partial 8 right
Slide - Eagle stamp over firing pin
Frame - EEC stamp - Very light eagle (sand blast wiped out)

Curious marks - "5" & "2" right rear

Looking to learn more on my new find. Know everyone like pictures so I added a few.

Leggett71

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[browningautorifle]

Looking to learn more on my new find.

These guys will give you lots. Nice looking pistol. If you could give them some more detailed pics, like completely stripped and the small parts and markings inside it would help them more.

[RASelkirk]

Educate me, what is "UMC"? I've seen it on Remington ammo, not on a gun (yet)...

Russ

[#1oilman]

Union Metallic Cartridge a division of Remington

---------- Post added at 06:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:20 PM ----------

I live minutes from the Michigan border, my uncle told me in the early 60's he bought several 1911's at the Detroit Armory, you paid $18.00 reached in a barrel and pulled out as many grease paper wrapped pistols as you wanted, no inspection allowed. Those were the days!

[browningautorifle]

"UMC"

You'll see it on civilian ammo boxes now days.

[Leggett71]

More photos as Jim requested. Just noticed when adding the photos the "S" (Springfield) stamped on the hammer.

Enjoy and looking forward to your comments.



Leggett

[Scott Gahimer]

Your pistol has been assembled from parts and refinished after it left military hands. Guns that were refurbished at the arsenals never left with matching parts. Groups of pistols were disassembled and separated by type. The parts were inspected, then those that were still serviceable were refurbished. When pistols were assembled, all non-serviceable parts were replaced with either reclaimed and refurbished parts, or new replacement parts. Finally, after assembly was complete, the pistols were inspected and marked with a final inspection.
If your pistol was actually refurbished at an arsenal, the type of finish indicates it was a late rework, and wooden stocks were not available then. Your box and paper sound like they are possibly reproduction, or reclaimed by someone to use with this pistol. The stocks also look reproduction as well.
It looks like a very nice modern phosphate finish on the pistol. It has become quite common to build these pistols, apply fake arsenal markings and package them with repro boxes and paperwork. Still, it looks like a nice pistol. In the end, I just think it is important to know what you have.
More detailed photos might disclose more. Thanks for sharing.

[Leggett71]

Thanks for your reply Scott and I have read the arsenal procedures previously in other posts but not following your comments.

Parts are not matching but mixed.
From what I can tell the only UMC parts present are the slide & frame.
The parts are a mix of Colt, Springfield & UMC.
I do agree the wood grips would have been plastic if an unchanged AA refurb. But what makes them reproductions and not just owner added originals?
Finish and AA stamps are consistent with other AA refurbished 1911's I own, stamp location, size, font. So how are you determining they have been faked?
I did not post photos of the boxing so how can you comment it is faked. Box is old and shows its age. Other 1911's in the individual's collection I obtained this from were simarily boxed acquired in the 60's.
Photos posted are as detailed as I can get without removing the hammer & mainspring.

Not being disrespectful of your expert opinion but just not in agreement.

Regards,
Leggett

[Scott Gahimer]

I didn't think your reply was disrespectful, but thanks for clarifying.

There are some other things that don't add up with arsenal rebuild, too. Your pistol seems to have some contrasting colors in the parts. Arsenal rebuilds are typically all the same color. Back to the matching parts. I understand the slide and frame are the only UMC parts you can ID. There were only 21,676 UMC pistols to begin with, and only about 1000 with single line model address slides. When the arsenals were doing large batches of parts, it's almost impossible to think components so rare to begin with would end up being mated together.

I truly am only trying to be helpful. I own several arsenal rebuilds and have examined countless examples of both legitimate and faked boxed arsenal rigs. Why don't you show us the box and packing? I'd like to see what you've got. My comments about box and packing was based solely on the appearance of the gun, it's finish and stocks. Additionally, what's the barrel look like? Don't see many late rebuilds using WWI barrels? Thanks.

[Leggett71]

Scott
Really appreciate you all of your comments.
Will post box photo later.
Barrel PH marking & stamped lug are included. Bore is bright, lands sharp.
Comparing the finish to my other AA 1911's it is greener in color, but it is uniform. My I Phone takes good pics but the incandescent lighting in my den is a bit shadowy, The AA stamps are deeper but again same size & location.
Have seen another similar older frame with a newer slide posted on the 1911 forum with the comment that due to early UMC non interchangeability the arsenal kept the Remington parts together for rebuilds. Could be that posters rationalization to cover a non arsenal rebuild but sounded good.
I will also agree on the barrel as probably an owner addition as my other arsenal refinished have had later colt or part numbered barrels.
A very nice barrel though. Will probably move it to my 1917 unfinished Colt that came with a later Colt barrel. It came with close to "0" finish left from another local find.

Thanks again and I do appreciate your comments as you have seen and owned far more 1911's than I.

Regards,
Leggett