Broken original type one band vs replacement. Legit?

[HDSledge]

First, there are original bands with smaller, more pronounced spot welds. There are also fakes with smeary, undefined welds on top that are among the hardest to tell from the originals at first glance. As far as the out edge being rounded versus flat, I took out a known fake from my desk drawer (good to have fakes nearby) and the edge is straight, but so are some of the ones on my carbines that I know are original. One has to remember that there were multiple manufacturers of type one, two and three bands and that meant there were some subtle and maybe not so subtle differences. Sorry I couldn't be more help. I also wish you other band wasn't broken.

Could you post a pic of one of your original bands that has the flat edge?

[USGI]

simple test: with screw and swivel out pinch the two open ends together, it they spring back to full form it is real. Real bands were made from spring steel, repros are not and when pinched will not spring back to full form.

Not going to remove my "Thanks" from Cali's post on Page 1, but I broke my repro Type 1 band (kind that comes in a white box) while squeezing it to see if it had any spring to it. Don't think I'll try this on a real one - maybe just take his word for it! This is a band I bought from Sarco for around $15 to get a swivel for a friend who needed one, and said a repro would do. A couple weeks later, I saw a guy at a local gun show selling these for $10. The screw that came in this one is so close to an original, I'm going to use is to replace a "buggered" one on an old Inland I have.

Here's how I broke it: Squeezed a bit to see what would happen and it felt like it had some temper to it. Next, I squeezed some more (probably to around 1/4" gap) and it made a "crunch" and stayed where it was at - oops! I pulled it back apart and it went back to original, but with a fracture at one of the bends, which appears to be a lot tighter bend than on a real one. I'll attach a few quick pictures to show what this one looks like. It still has some spring to it, and not completely broken in two yet! - Bob

[HDSledge]

I am leaning toward the smooth edge being by design since the sharp edge would not be comfortable in the hand. Pics from deldriver of his original(s) may settle my mind. Need to see more examples of originals with that sharp edge before I install it though.

[Flying10uk]

Another "dead give-away" on the edge of a replacement part to it being a modern copy/fake is if it's been Laser cut and not either punched or a normal smooth stock edge. This is for the simple reason that I don't believe that they had C.N.C. Laser cutting machines during WW2 and immediately Post War. It's easy to be caught out by this and slightly embarrassingly I have myself once or twice since I work in the metalworking industry. Looking carefully at the edge of metal there is a difference between a Laser cut part and a punched part or normal stock edge. The reason that "Fakers" will often use Laser cut parts nowadays is that they don't have to make hard tooling.

[cali201]

Not going to remove my "Thanks" from Cali's post on Page 1, but I broke my repro Type 1 band (kind that comes in a white box) while squeezing it to see if it had any spring to it. Don't think I'll try this on a real one - maybe just take his word for it! This is a band I bought from Sarco for around $15 to get a swivel for a friend who needed one, and said a repro would do. A couple weeks later, I saw a guy at a local gun show selling these for $10. The screw that came in this one is so close to an original, I'm going to use is to replace a "buggered" one on an old Inland I have.

Here's how I broke it: Squeezed a bit to see what would happen and it felt like it had some temper to it. Next, I squeezed some more (probably to around 1/4" gap) and it made a "crunch" and stayed where it was at - oops! I pulled it back apart and it went back to original, but with a fracture at one of the bends, which appears to be a lot tighter bend than on a real one. I'll attach a few quick pictures to show what this one looks like. It still has some spring to it, and not completely broken in two yet! - Bob

Sorry about that, do I need to send you $15 so you can buy another one? No fear of a real one breaking, I have tested all of mine (including a repro or 2). It still is the best and easy way to test for an original, real band. And if it does break it was no good to begin with!! PS: Please excuse any spelling errors, it is tough to type with a cat sitting directly in front of the keyborad and monitor, have to reach around her to type.

[browningautorifle]

And if it does break it was no good to begin with!!

Exactly. Can't imagine marketing one like that to begin with. I'd return that one for sure.

[HDSledge]

Hey Bob my cat used to put her paws up on the keyboard and one day I found her in the office doing a google search. She closed the window before I could get a look at what she was doing though. Probably kitty porn.

Back to the band question: So far no one has definitively named the replacement band as a repro. The edge is the biggest issue for me. Here is the pic with that highlighted. Did any supplier produce a band with that flat edged stock for WWII carbines?

You guys with known unmolested original carbines can solve this one for me. Do any of your prime examples have a sharp edge band around the stock or are they all rounded?

Flying10uk: re. Looking carefully at the edge of metal there is a difference between a Laser cut part and a punched part or normal stock edge.
What can you tell me about the edge on the right?



ps. I love this hobby but hate humpers passing off repro/rebuilt as original. A few months ago I thought a humper was an energetic puppy.

edit: John provided a pic of one of his originals, it has the rounded edge.

[painter777]

Band on stock is WRA.
Loose one is MR:
Best I can seem to do today on pictures.

I have 7 T1 bands here, all have a bit of a rounded or tapered over edge, not enough as to where they'd be a problem with hook up on the barrel band spring.
None have as hard an edge as the one you have pictured.

Charlie-painter777

[USGI]

Cali, No problem with the broken fake band. I've already recovered the cost in the worth (to me) of the screw and the swivel. Also, worth it to get that tip from you! I'm still not going to try this on an original, though! Have an old cat here too, that gets jealous if I give the computer more attention than I do him! Sledge: I've got a Dr. appointment this afternoon, but will try posting pictures of a couple of my originals later this evening. You started a very good thread - and thanks for the pics, Charlie. - Bob

[Flying10uk]

Flying10uk: re. Looking carefully at the edge of metal there is a difference between a Laser cut part and a punched part or normal stock edge.
What can you tell me about the edge on the right?

I would say that the outer profile of the band is punched rather than laser cut. With laser cut parts you normally get tiny tell-tail lines running at tangents along the edge where the metal has been cut by the laser beam. Punched metal will normally have a "witness" line running somewhere around the middle of the metal, visible along it's length on the edge. The picture on the right looks as if the part has been shot blasted and/or Parked and so it's difficult to see this punching "witness" mark, however, I think that it is just about visible. It doesn't look laser cut.

The inner ring looks as if it's been made from stock material with a slightly rounded edge.