Looking to buy a Danish 1867/96 Rolling Block

[Aragorn243]

I have a rifle being shipped in from Utah. At this stage I'm not obligated to buy it, just have to pay for the shipping. From what I can see in the photos, it's in pretty nice shape. Only drawback and it isn't a big one for me is that the finish is thin. Stock looks great, normal dings, etc but the cartouches are all present and serial matches the barrel. Bore was described as shiny with strong grooves. The photos are very clear and I can examine basically the whole rifle minus a few small areas like the top of the butt stock but it was confirmed by the seller that the cartouche is present there.

I have no experience with rolling blocks but they look pretty simple. Anything in particular that I need to look at before finalizing the purchase? Unusual breakage areas, etc? It has the conversion to shoot centerfire or rimfire. Supposed to be in original caliber but have been told some were reamed for 45-70.

Information

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[Patrick Chadwick]

Anything in particular that I need to look at before finalizing the purchase? Unusual breakage areas, etc?

The 1867/96 was the rimfire to centerfire conversion of the original RBs. Your rifle should have a crown on the top of the barrel, between the rear sight and the receiver. This was added when the centerfire conversion was made. Check carefully what the chambering is now.

For shooting, it is important that the face of the block is square to the bore axis - and remains so after the shot has been fired!

Check that no live cartridge is in the chamber. Cock the rifle and check that the block face is square to the bore axis. Now any mechanical system must have some play, however small, in order to function. And then wears as it gets older. The weakness of a worn RB is that this can mean that the block face is no longer square to the bore axis after firing. Get a (preferably brass) rod about a yard long that will slide down the barrel. "Fire" the rifle, so that the hammer moves fully forwards and locks the block. Insert the rod into the barrel and push it down very firmly. The block will appear to move back slightly, but since it is on a pin it will actually rotate a little. And if pin/block wear is excessive, the block face, no longer being square to the bore axis, will cause the base of the fired case to be slightly skewed. Basically, if you can see that it is no longer square to the bore, then you have a problem, as every time the case is fired the base will be distorted again.

Assuming that the distortion is small enough that it does not present a safety problem, the simple answer is to mark the cases so that they are always inserted with the same orientation, so that any slight skew remains constant and does not cause a repeated reworking of the base area. And do not fully calibrate the cases either! Treat all old BP rifles as individuals, forget about modern notions of headspace, and regard the first firing as a fire-forming to make the cases fit that rifle. For subsequent firings use neck-sizing only. OK, so the case has no neck - you simply screw out the sizer half a turn.

Best of all, if the chamber/bore dimensions allow it, is to use lead bullets with about 5% tin added and a diameter that allows them to be seated without resizing the case at all. This is a single-shot rifle, so neck tension can be very light - a finger-and-thumb push fit is enough - as the sheer inertia of the heavy bullet (weight somewhere around 400-520 gns) ensures adequate case expansion, and the 5% tin alloy is soft enough to slug up to fit the bore, even if it is noticeably worn. Some experimentation will be required to find the best match.

But...
Do NOT use nitro propellants.
Do NOT use jacketed bullets.

Both of these will send pressures up to potentially dangerous levels. And put together they will endanger your life. You are firing a barrel that was intended for BP pressures when it was new, and it is now 150 years old!

And to anyone who now writes in saying that he uses nitro and his RB hasn't failed, I can only add the word ... yet.

[Aragorn243]

Here are the photos I have access too:

[butlersrangers]

That is a nice looking Danish R-B. I think the rear barrel-band may be on 'backwards'. The Danish Crown should be on the left-side, when the barrel-bands are installed.

I am not sure what you mean by "Stock Cartouche"? (I don't recall my Danish stock having one, when I owned and fired one).

The Danish cartridge is slightly larger in diameter than the .45-70 cartridge case. It is common for Danish chambers to be able accept .45-70 Factory ammo. (But, Don't Shoot These - Cases Will Split)!

If .45-70 brass is to be used, it should be 'fire formed' to the Danish chamber, using low pressure loads. IIRC - In some Danish R-B rifles, .45-70 cases may need to be slightly shortened.

FWIW - (I used 'once fired' .45-70 brass, without reforming it. I used pure cast-lead, 405 grain - .459" diameter projectiles, with 'smokeless' loads considered safe for the 'trap-door' Springfield.

I lightly crimped the bullets at the case mouth, by slightly pressing the case & bullet into the base of a .30-06 Sizing Die on my Press. 50 and 100 yard accuracy was good. I did not have to shorten cases for a proper fit. Dies were not necessary to reload).

[Aragorn243]

Not big cartouches, just two small crowns and then a slightly larger "something" on the top of the butt stock. I believe the fellow said it looked like a double C or GC of some sort. It's the one I can't see in the photos. I have seen photos of other rifles with this mark, looks like GC to me in a small rectangle.

[#1oilman]

Nice looking rifle, there appears to be traces of case coloring on the reciever.

[Aragorn243]

It looks more like grease or age patina in zoomed photos. I can't get zoomed photos off their site, had a hard time getting these.

[Patrick Chadwick]

That looks like a very nice Roller! The backsight is correctly mounted, even if it looks a bit odd. See Layman, Remington Rolling Block Military Rifles of the World, pp71-73. And yes, the middle band does seem to be reversed. Butlersrangers has made the correct comments about ammo. And the receiver is not color-case-hardened. What you see is patina from handling.

If the bore is OK and there is no nasty slop in the action from worn pins (see my previous post), then you may well have a keeper.

[butlersrangers]

It is the 'rear' barrel-band that is reversed. The 'middle' band has a 'flanged screw' on the left-side, that serves as a 'Blade' for long range 'Volley Fire'.

It is a nice Danish Rolling-Block. Don't mess with the finish of wood and metal.

[Patrick Chadwick]

It is the 'rear' barrel-band that is reversed. The 'middle' band has a 'flanged screw' on the left-side, that serves as a 'Blade' for long range 'Volley Fire'...

Thanks BR. Any idea what the volley range was? I didn't find the volley sight mentioned in the book. Would you care to inform the author, so that any future edition can be that bit better?