Mosin Nagant Accuracy...

[Frederick303]

One way the Soviets could improve the consistency of the 91/30 accuracy was to wrap the barrel in felt around 7 inches from the end of the barrel, held in place by the upper band and the bands. It is essentially a nodal damping method. I forget but believe the felt was between 110 and 120 mm long. Apparently it was approved for use in both competitive and sniper rifles.

No idea on the average improvement, just read about it years ago and put down as a note.

The Soviets did make low end match rifles out of the 91/30 rifles, with the standard barrel. Some examples are shown in the book "Competitive shooting" A.A. Yur Yev. 1973.

They are shown on page 376 and include the AV, AVL, and BI 7.72, with the AV being nothing more than a regular 91/30 with a slightly shorten barrel, rear sight removed, restocked with a near military stock and an added target sight, set up for 300 m shooting. The sight adjustments were 1.5 cm at that distance on all of the 7.62 models, slightly better than the 2 cm which is standard with western European sight adjustments of that era (10 cm 10 ring @ 300 M).

As far as ammunition, "target" grade cartridges showing D100 of around 10~13 cm @ 300 M (20 shots). The extra cartridges were supposed to show under 9 cm 20 shot grouping at the same distance. The best "extra" lots will show grouping on the order of R 2.5 to 2.7 cm and D100 of 4.8 to 5.1 cm, which is right in line with the GP11 better production lots.

That said I have no idea about how well these rifles shot, as there is precious little information on them and the expected Extra accuracy combined with the various Mosin based match rifles or even the standard service rifle..

[cherokee]

I can't imagine what you drank before not understanding what I said. No you don't understand.

Nagant rifles are at their peak from the factory. Civilian rifles have potential for improvement, bedding, sights, trigger packages...I would never put money into a cheap rifle to make it a target rifle. It's not worth it.

Ok, we are on the same page....it is flat stupid to pour good money into a 91/30 you are not going to make it any better. And that plastic Savage is going to get you a much better gun then you bubba-ing the thing to death.

[browningautorifle]

.it is flat stupid to pour good money into a 91/30 you are not going to make it any better.

Agreed.

[Aragorn243]

I don't know if anyone pointed this out on this thread or not but 91-30's were designed to be fired with the bayonet on. You may want to try that at the range next time. I never could quite figure out in my head what difference the bayonet would make but I guess it changes the barrel resonance or something.

[browningautorifle]

I never could quite figure out in my head what difference the bayonet would make but I guess it changes the barrel resonance or something.

It will do that for sure.

[Chainfire]

Accuracy of any military surplus rifle is dependent on the condition. Accuracy in general depends primarily upon the rifleman, the ammo and the rifle. A lot of variables. Most Mosin-Nagant rifles are more accurate than most "riflemen." If you are looking for 1 MOA, buy a modern rifle and a nice scope. If you want a battle veteran rifle, buy a Mosin, or a Mauser, on an Enfield, or .........

[browningautorifle]

A lot of variables. Most Mosin-Nagant rifles are more accurate than most "riflemen." If you are looking for 1 MOA, buy a modern rifle and a nice scope. If you want a battle veteran rifle, buy a Mosin, or a Mauser, on an Enfield, or .........

All sound thoughts, most rifles are more accurate than their shooter...

[Ridolpho]

They peaked when the Finns captured them and were finished with them. Otherwise, yes, they peaked at the factory.

I hear so many stories about 91/30's, the worst being having to beat the bolt open with a section of 2x4 after every shot, most likely because they are using cheap, steel cased and heavily coated shells that melt and stick. .

I watched a movie titled "The Winter War" recently and it was truly noteworthy how the actors/re-enactors were struggling to cycle their rifles- often setting them down on the ground and pounding on the bolt handle. This is a characteristic of the standard M91 or 91/30, etc. My bent bolt sniper rifles are very smooth and easily worked due simply to the leverage gained from the longer bolt handle. As far as accuracy goes, I think it's always necessary to remember that the Soviet refurbs may or may not have had much attention payed to the bedding. Some are pretty good, others not so. With regard to bedding, original Soviet documents indicate that solid bedding is necessary under the barrel reinforce with shimming under the front receiver flat being strictly to avoid bending the receiver when tightening the main screw. Finn shimming often seems to not follow this rule, with shims at the front receiver flat and tang intended to simply lift the barrel up out of the channel (float it) without contact under the reinforce. Many of my Finn rifles give the impression of wartime expediency with brass shims tacked in as a quick and dirty method of getting a barreled action into a stock without lots of nitpicky woodworking.

Ridolpho