Full Epoxy Bedding

[Ridolpho]

Mit: Since you're starting with a forend already opened for the H barrel, why not try setting it up conventionally, as a baseline, before going on to this epoxy approach? The sort of precision being shown and talked about here is all achievable with standard techniques. If you were unhappy with the results you could then proceed with the epoxy and make a bit of an interesting experiment out of it. I try to keep an open mind but I've never seen much that would suggest this epoxy bedding is either a sure-fire path to accuracy or a way to salvage decrepit forends. On the other hand, I'd be interested in seeing a well documented before and after test. My own H barrel is fully floated forward of the barrel reinforce and I took the somewhat unusual approach (with a walnut forend) of using copper blocks on the all important draws. It allows, via thin shims behind the blocks, for fine tuning of the contact on each side and it has stood the test of several hundred rounds. Good luck with whatever you decide to do and be sure to show us the results. Regards.

Ridolpho

[martins8589]

Mitt, (everyone can block their ears, cover their eyes etc.lol)
Well the No4 7.62 tactical is finished. Now has a muzzle break fitted, scope mount is made out of 4mm angle iron (because the crap no gunsmith ones flex) Lynx 6-24X42 scope.
Also trigger group has been cleaned up and second stage is now a nice 4 1/2 lbs pull. (Thanks Peter Laidler)
I took her out for a test and also tried Nosler Custom Competition 155gn projectiles. Results;
100yds Nosler CC projectiles 1/2" 5 shot group!!!!!!!
100yds HJBC 1" 5 shot groups.
400yds quick 4 shot group just to check elevations. 3 shots under 1 1/2" 4th shot (pulled) under 3".
So Mitt I reakon the full epoxy bedding has worked well

[Mit]

martins8589, that's a great result!

I have bought my acra-gel and am looking forward to giving it a go.

I have started test staining a no4 birch hand guard in an attempt to blend it to the coach wood hand guard I will splice it with. On a side note anyone used the handguard retaining lower band/ring (not sure of the correct name) off a no4 on a no1mk3. I understand I will have to create the channel in the fore-end. Would be a nicer fit than using the clamps off the original handguard to secure the one piece section.

My project has hit a minor hurdle, on the quest for a suitable rifle I was given a Lithgow 1942 from a generous relative. It is still full of grease from its FTR in 1955. All my mates (and my wife) say I'm mad to even turn a screw on it so I am unlikely to use it as the base for my project. What a terrible thing to happen.

[martins8589]

: Mitt, don't do it!!!!!!! an unfired FTR is worth over $1000 now. If you need a SMLE barreled action PM me.
Terrible!!! I think not. Your privileged.

[Mit]

Don't worry martins8589 the rifle is safe and will be put in a silicone sock and remain in its current state.

It is a much thinner grease then that found on my no4 bayonet I bought in its paper and feels like normal grease as opposed to cosmolene.

The rifle still has remnants of the brown paper and a grey and yellow sticker with "SAF" in a diamond. Not sure if anyone knows what era that sticker is to try and date its sale?

The magazine and front sling swivel had poked through the paper and are coroded, amazing to see how well the grease paper did its job.

Will let you know how my quest for another more suitable rifle goes. I will aim to buy a full wood SMLE with a bad bore only to try and and build up some more spares.

So this thread will have to wait until I get another Permit To Acquire (Justification of why I need another rifle to the government + a $36 fee).

I will start trying to make the one piece hand-guard while I wait. One sold on eBay for a sickening amount today.

[Bruce_in_Oz]

One of the problems with using any sort of "resin" based material in bedding is the condition of the base timber.
A typical Lee Enfield fore-end will have been generously anointed with oil for most of its life.

Resins, be they polyester or epoxy do not stick well in such circumstances.

The reasons for re-"doing' the draws as per Capt. Laidlers textbook admonitions are several:

The issue of oil-contamination is one.

The tiny amount of resin will be harder than the timber and will compress and distort the parent wood, and result in the "detachment of the resin. There is a good reason those copper plates were held on with screws.

You have to cut back the damaged draws to get to "clean" timber anyway, so why not do it by the book.

As for "bearing surfaces" forward of the action?

IF you are shooting good-old Mk7 ball (lucky you), the recommended (military) standard is specifically intended to work in harmony (as it were) with the barrel vibrations induced by THAT ammo, and that ammo ONLY.

Vintage 8Z, Lapua, Winchester, PPU etc, do NOT duplicate Mk7 very closely at all, therefore, the barrel vibrations / waves, etc. are quite different.

If you never shoot past 100yds, you may never notice this, but things will get "weird" out at 400 plus.

Sweets book goes into a LOT of detail about setting up No1 and No4 rifles for target shooting, but even those ideas may not work.

The best thing is to get the fore-end fitted to the barreled action as per "THE BOOK" (the proper military armourer's manuals) and THEN play around with ammo or, if you must, the bedding.

And there is precious little point in doing this to a rifle with a barrel that has an eroded throat and muzzle, regardless of the ammo available, or with a fore-end that is split, warped, or more patches than original timber.

Final note: If you want to play with "resin" bedding of ANY rifle, the "go-to" material is "Stainless-Steel Devcon". This stuff is so tough when set, it is used to do minor repairs on milling machine beds that have been "attacked" by errant cutters. BUT, regardless of the job in hand, the substrate material MUST be completely oil-free before "filling' or the patch will become loose / fall out in very sort order.

Use of "oil" as a release agent is to be avoided as it will contaminate the bedding compound right from the start. Your local (or mail-order) "fibre-glass supplies" store will have release agent in stock, cheap (ish). This stuff is an emulsion not unlike the soft, clear "paper adhesive" used by school kids around the world. There are also waxes as used by boat-builders to stop very large boat hulls sticking in the moulds during lay-up. This stuff is also somewhat water-soluble. The usual method for releasing a hull (or deck assembly) from a mould is to plug a water hose into the special fitting on the outside of the mould, turn on reasonably high-pressure water, and literally "float" the product off the mould.

[Mit]

Thanks Bruce,

I have cleaned all the timber back to good clean timber, this was part of the reason I wanted to use epoxy as I had to scrape a bit of timber away on most of the contact areas in the stock. Someone had already made a mess of the fore-end when it was previously bedded so that's why I thought it was a good candidate for the epoxy. It is now back to nice clean timber that I can stipple to create a larger surface area to get better adhesion.

I have repaired or replaced draws in the past and may still do that in this rifle and fire a few rounds as a baseline but will definitely still use epoxy around the main screw/side rails as there has already been timber removed to the point where I could create further issues if I bring the whole receiver down to that level.

I have a brand new H barrel ready to fit and will be using handloads. So I won't have much to blame apart from the bedding if things go astray.

Thanks for the advice with the devcon. I was planning on using that to bed the draws if I went down that path.

As for "bearing surfaces" forward of the action, that had me confused as well. Do you think he is referring to the small steps at the front of the no.4 receiver?

As a bit of an update I have acquired a 1902 MLE mk1* that I will use as a base for the project for something a little different. The action is smooth and that trigger is brilliant, so I'm looking forward to getting it all together. I have already filled in the charger bridge slot in the stock.

Still in the process of making the one piece hand guard. I'm still trying to work out on the best way to secure it on the receiver end, I thought about using the standard hand-guard clips or making tabs coming up from the side of the fore-end to small bolts. Has anyone tried the no4 band/ring at the receiver to secure one?

[martins8589]

Mitt, My 1901 Enfield Heavy barrel "Fullbore" target rifle has a one piece hand guard and it has the original spring clips fitted to it.

[Bruce_in_Oz]

Mit:

Those "one-piece" hand-guards for the No1 turn up from time to time. Their use obviously precludes the use of the standard sights.

The one I have "somewhere" around here, is basically held on at the rear by a more-or-less standard rear hand-guard "clip". It came off a Lithgow-actioned "range rifle that had a proper "H" barrel fitted, but said barrel had been stored with the traditional "oily rag" stuffed into the muzzle; the oil dried out, a bit of humidity got in and, over the next twenty years, the muzzle developed nasty pitting back about half an inch. That otherwise nice "H" barrel was swapped over to a a mate's "sporter" that had a very "crisp" standard barrel on a "customized"- everything rifle. He just lopped off the last inch or so and re-crowned it and, thus, has a perfectly good "bush rifle" again. (Old-school "Field" brand side-mount, late-'60s? Redfield scope).