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  1. #1
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    1898 Krag Carbine

    I've been looking for a Kragicon for a while and finally found one that was in the condition I wanted and a price I could swallow. The last Krag I found was in much worse condition for three hundred more than this so I passed on it. That was about four years ago.

    The SN is 208675. The bore looks great with no pitting. The stock has a fill in the front and a filled in sling attachment on the buttstock, so it is probably a cut down rifle stock. The only cartouche visible is the P just below the trigger guard. The rear sight goes to 20, so I would guess that's an actual carbine rear sight? The one problem is the screws are in about as far as they go and the sight base is slightly loose. It only rocks if I pull the rear sight up and use the sight as a lever. I can't rock it when the sight is down. The interior parts looks good and everything else is in good condition on the rifle. I should be able to take it out shooting later today.

    Edit: Forgot to mention, it has a 22 1/4 inch long barrel.

    Attachment 81461Attachment 81462Attachment 81463Attachment 81464Attachment 81465Attachment 81466Attachment 81467
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    Last edited by M1Lou; 03-05-2017 at 01:10 PM.

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    The serial number is a rifle number, there are rifles on each side of that "Area" for a long ways. There is no direct hit on that number. As you suspect, things are out of whack here. I think the sight and handguard are a mismatch, you shouldn't have the opening at the front, that's why the screws don't fit. A carbine sight base is marked "C" too.

    Butlersrangers will be along shortly to sort this out...definitively.

    A nice looking little representative though, I'd be happy to have that as a clean shooter too. Specially since I have brass and dies...
    Regards, Jim

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    'M1Lou' - You have an attractive looking Kragicon, but, You are going to hate me.

    As 'browningautorifleicon' states, the serial number, #208675, is suspect.

    Only 5,000 U.S. model 1898 carbines were made and their serial numbers mainly fall between #117,536 to #133,791 (mixed in with lots of rifles).

    Your barrel looks to be a carbine barrel. But, 22 1/4 inches? Re-measure it! A Krag carbine barrel should be exactly 22 inches long, when measured from the muzzle-crown to the closed bolt-face, with a cleaning rod.

    Your stock appears to be a 'long forearm' Krag carbine stock that came out in 1899. These stocks were fitted to many model 1898 Krag carbines, during Arsenal rebuilding. But, the Sling-Bar & Ring never were used on this model stock (also, it is not located properly).

    The Sling-Bar & Ring were only used the shorter model 1896 and early model 1898 carbine stocks.

    Your hand-guard is a model 1896 rifle hand-guard that someone has modified. (Not Springfield).

    Your sight may be loose, because the wrong screws have been utilized. There is quite a variety of Krag sight screws and they are rather sight specific.

    I believe your rear sight is a mixmaster of surplus parts. The 'top' may be a model 1903 (rod-bayonet) Springfield leaf. The bottom could be the base from a model 1898 sight (rifle) that became 'obsolete' in 1901.

    These unofficial 'hybrids' are often 'passed off' as carbine sights. (The 'leaf spring' of the 1898 base is different than the one on the 1902 sight base).

    It would be interesting to see close-up pictures of the 'sling-swivel patches' on your carbine stock. Apparently some Krag carbines received swivels for use by engineers.

    Attached are some pictures to help you analyze your Krag: 1. Krag 1902 sight-screws. 2. 3. & 4. Krag 1902 carbine sight. 5. Hand-guard used with 1898 and 1902 sights (Rifle and Carbine).

    Attachment 81477Attachment 81478Attachment 81479Attachment 81480Attachment 81481

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    I suspected it was probably not a real carbine, and it wasn't sold to me as such. The store selling it didn't know much about it and I had a bit of fun trying to buy it because we couldn't figure out if the rifle had to go through a background check or if they could ship it to my house. I was out of town for work when I found it, so I had to mail it. Being an 1899 made rifle it of course had to go through an FFL.

    I was able to get it to the range today. The recoil is noticeably lower than my 03A3 that I also shot today. The one issue is the Kragicon shoots really high. If I hold at the bottom of the target at 100 yards, it hits the top of the target which is about 18-20". I made sure the sights were on it's lowest setting. It was tough and I never did get a good idea of how it groups. Of course lot of my milsurp rifles shoot high at 100 yards, but this seems excessive.

    I measured the barrel three more times and opened the bolt to make sure it's resting on the bolt face. It came out each time to 22 1/4".

    Here are a few more pictures. I took the stock off and found a marking that looks like a C.B.? The screws are definitely wrong, so when I go to buy some Snider parts from S&S for my Snider beater, I'll snag some new screws. The barrel has some mars on the underside that look like someone placed it in a vice to remove it. Other than what I've mentioned, I didn't see any other markings on the rifle.

    Overall I am happy with the rifle, and will be even more so when I sort out it's few minor issues, turning it into a good shooter.

    Attachment 81483Attachment 81484Attachment 81485Attachment 81486
    Attachment 81487

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    Pic 3 appears to be a patch in the channel present in a rifle stock. Screws are definitely out of whack, that could be why it won't shoot to POA for you. There are two different heights of front sight, maybe the tall one will work better. Good luck finding an original though...it's hard. The wood patch has been put in with Microbed by the looks of it, a product from Brownells that's no longer available. It bleeds out after hardening like that is. No big thing...
    Regards, Jim

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    'M1Lou' - Your Kragicon's stock is a 'cut-down' U.S. model 1898 rifle stock.


    (Photo of model 1899 carbine front-sight attached):
    Attachment 81499
    Last edited by butlersrangers; 03-05-2017 at 11:28 PM.

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    'M1Lou' - Your Kragicon's stock is a 'cut-down' U.S. model 1898 rifle stock.

    Someone did a nice job putting filler plugs in the sling-swivel and forearm 'lightening cut' openings on your Stock. A very nice job was done in re-shaping the forearm tip and inletting the barrel-band spring. (It had me fooled in your first group of photos).

    Your front-sight blade is a very low one. If you get a reproduction Krag rifle blade from S&S Firearms and install it, your sight calibration problem will probably be solved. The higher rifle blade will align the sights to shoot lower.

    Your sight screws may be model 1892/1896 sight screws or Trapdoor Springfield sight screws. S&S reproduction screws for the Krag model 1902 sight should 'cure' the loose sight.

    The "C.B" marking in the stock magazine area is probably the initials of a 'Stocker' or 'Sub-inspector'.

    If you take a close and clear photo of your front sight-base and muzzle crown area, the reason for the odd barrel length might be explained. I am also curious about your rear-sight's spring.

    (Photo of model 1899 carbine front-sight attached):
    Attachment 81499

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    Kragicon 1898 sight base contrasted with Krag 1902 sight base:

    Attachment 81500Attachment 81501

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    I decided to buy a new front sight and screws from S&S. It's not an original sight, but i wont feel bad shaping it to get a good zero. I find it weird that a lot of milsurp rifles have short front sights, modified by the previous owners. It makes me wonder what kind of ammo or shooting they were doing.

    I attached a crappy picture of the rear sight spring.
    Attachment 81516

  14. #10
    Legacy Member butlersrangers's Avatar
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    'M1Lou' - Your rear sight base is from a model 1898 sight and the top part is the leaf from a model 1903 Springfield 'rod-bayonet' sight.

    These components were surplus in the early 1900s. Bannerman, W. Stokes Kirk, gunsmiths and hobbyists were known to combine such parts to make a serviceable sight. S&S Firearms and Joe DeChristopher did this more recently.

    (It does make a close approximation of a model 1902 carbine sight, but, it is not correct).

    I puzzle about your 22 and 1/4 inch barrel. Looking at your photo, I see what appears to be changes in texture and diameter.

    I wonder if someone made a 'sleeve' from a cut-off section of a Kragicon rifle barrel, which included the front-sight. It could have been "bored it out" and then slid on a shortened barrel that was 'stepped'. (Just puzzling for a answer).

    FWIW - A Krag carbine barrel will measure approximately .656" diameter (at midway point of front-sight base). A Krag rifle barrel will measure around .623" diameter at the front-sight area.

    (Photo of M1Lou's barrel with red arrows showing seeming change of texture or possible blending of different diameters).

    Attachment 81517
    Last edited by butlersrangers; 03-06-2017 at 10:57 PM.

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