Off Topic Unique WW1 Photo - Pyramid of captured German helmets, New York, 1918

[Flying10uk]

Cinders the heavily armed B17 that you mentioned in your post 18, I was under the understanding that there were a number of these special heavily armed "gunship" versions around that only carried MG's. Their sole purpose to attract enemy fighters and shoot them down. Is anyone able to confirm this and tell us anymore about them, please?

[browningautorifle]

the heavily armed B17

They were as mentioned, slow and couldn't keep up with bomb laden aircraft. They would fall back and out of formation, so were deemed a waste of resource and the idea scrapped.

[Mark in Rochester]

The YB-40's mission was to provide a heavily gunned escort capable of accompanying bombers all the way to the target and back. Of the initial order of 13, one (43-5732) was lost on the delivery flight from Iceland to the UK in May 1943; it force-landed in a peat bog on a Scottish island after running out of fuel. Although removed to Stornoway and repaired, it never flew in combat. The remaining 12 were allocated to the 92d Bombardment Group (Heavy), being assigned to the 327th Bombardment Squadron, stationed at RAF Alconbury (AAF-102) on 8 May 1943.

YB-40s flew in the following operational missions:

29 May 1943 - attacked submarine pens and locks at Saint-Nazaire. Smaller strikes were made at Rennes naval depot and U-boat yards at La Pallice. In the attack, seven YB-40s were dispatched to Saint-Nazaire; they were unable to keep up with B-17s on their return from the target and modification of the waist and tail gun feeds and ammunition supplies was found to be needed. The YB-40s were sent to Technical Service Command at the Abbots Ripton 2nd Strategic Air Depot for modifications.
15 June 1943 - four YB-40s were dispatched from Alconbury in a raid on Le Mans after completion of additional modifications.
22 June 1943 - attack on the I.G. Farben Industrie Chemische Werke synthetic rubber plant at Hüls. The plant, representing a large percentage of the Germany's synthetic rubber producing capacity, was severely damaged. In the raid, 11 YB-40s were dispatched; aircraft 42-5735 was lost, being first damaged by flak and later shot down by Uffz. Bernhard Kunze in a Focke-Wulf Fw 190A-2 of JG 1 over Pont, Germany. The 10 crew members survived and were taken prisoner.
25 June 1943 - attack on Blohm & Voss sub shops at Oldenburg. This was the secondary target, as the primary at Hamburg was obscured by clouds. In this raid, seven YB-40s were dispatched, of which two aborted. Two German aircraft were claimed as destroyed.
26 June 1943 - scheduled but aborted participation in attack on the Luftwaffe air depot at Villacoublay, France (primary target) and also the Luftwaffe airfield at Poissy, France. The five YB-40s assigned to the attack were unable to form up with the bombing squadron, and returned to base.
28 June 1943 - attack on the U-boat pens at Saint-Nazaire. In the raid, the only serviceable lock entrance to the pens was destroyed. In this attack, six YB-40s were dispatched, and one German aircraft was claimed as destroyed.
29 June 1943 - scheduled participation in attack on the Luftwaffe air depot at Villacoublay, but aircraft returned to Alconbury due to clouds obscuring the target. In the raid, two YB-40s dispatched, one aborted.
4 July 1943 - attacks on aircraft factories at Nantes and Le Mans, France. In these raids, two YB-40s were dispatched to Nantes and one to Le Mans.
10 July 1943 - attack on Caen/Carpiquet airfield. In this raid, five YB-40s were dispatched.
14 July 1943 - attacked Luftwaffe air depot at Villacoublay. In this raid, five YB-40s were dispatched.
17 July 1943 - YB-40s recalled from a raid on Hannover due to bad weather. In this raid, two YB-40s were dispatched.
24 July 1943 - YB-40s recalled from an attack on Bergen, Norway due to cloud cover. In this raid, one YB-40 was dispatched.
28 July 1943 - attack on the Fieseler aircraft factory at Kassel. In this raid, two YB-40s were dispatched.
29 July 1943 - attack on U-boat yards at Kiel. In this raid, two YB-40s were dispatched.
Summary[edit]

Boeing YB-40 Flying Fortress, 42-5736 ("Tampa Tornado") on display at RAF Kimbolton, England, 2 October 1943 when it was shown to those attending a party for local children.
Altogether of the 59 aircraft dispatched, 48 sorties were credited. Five German fighter kills and two probables (likely kills) were claimed, and one YB-40 was lost, shot down on 22 June mission to Hüls, Germany. Tactics were revised on the final five missions by placing a pair of YB-40s in the lead element of the strike to protect the mission commander.

Overall the concept proved a failure because the YB-40 could not keep up with standard B-17Fs, particularly after they had dropped their bombs. Despite the failure of the project as an operational aircraft, it led directly to the Bendix chin turret's fitment on the last 86 Douglas-built B-17F-75-DL production block aircraft, and were part of the standardized modifications conspicuous on the final production variant of the B-17, the B-17G:

Chin turret (first introduced on the last 86 Douglas-built "final production" blocks of the B-17F-DL aircraft)
Offset waist gun positions
Improved tail gunner station with much larger windows, usually nicknamed the "Cheyenne", after the Cheyenne modification center.
Once the test program ended, most of the surviving aircraft returned to the U.S. in November 1943 and were used as trainers. 42-5736 ("Tampa Tornado") was flown to RAF Kimbolton on 2 October 1943 where it was put on display and later used as a group transport. It was returned to the United States on 28 March 1944. All of the aircraft were sent to reclamation, mostly at RFC Ontario in May 1945, being broken up and smelted. (A couple of the YB-40s can be seen in the 1946 movie The Best Years of Our Lives, in the famous scene shot at the Ontario "graveyard".) No airframes were sold on the civil market.

[CINDERS]

Well just goes to show after the 100's of books I have read some of the info stuck did not realize they stuck another powered turret in the open space behind the top turret thanks Mark saved me looking through Cadins book again...
If you really want a gasp at a real folly with B-17's read the book by Olsen called "Aphrodite: Desperate Mission" often called "Operation Perilous" what a classic that experiment was.......

[Surpmil]

Or if you want info on Schweinfurt, read "Trading With The Enemy" by Charles Higham. The head of SKF in Philadelphia, named von Rosen if you please, was Herman Goering's cousin by marriage. While American plane and engine production was held up due to "lack of ball bearings", SKF Philadelphia was shipping bearings to South America from where they were shipped on to Germany!

It seems that SKF didn't like the idea of their bearing factory in Schweinfurt getting bombed by the USAAF, so "somehow" word of the intended raids got through to Germany, with the results now known to history.

Well worth reading that book.