remington 1903s on Bataan???

[rice 123]

I am rereading this book Doomed AT the Start it is about fighter pilots in the Philippines in 1941/42. On page 378 They are talking about the surrender of Bataan it says" PFC Jim Brown disassembled his Colt 45 and his Remington 1903 bashed them to pieces and threw them in the river". My first thought was he probably had a Remington 1917 of which there were plenty on Bataan. My second thought was a printing error it should have been Springfield 1903. But I got to ask the question did any Remingtons 1903s make it to the Philippines prior to the war

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Rick the Librarian]

Extremely unlikely - only a relative handful were manufactured by the end of 1941. The man being quoted either had a Springfield (most likely) or a Remington M1917.

When I visited the Philippines in 2014, I did see a number of cartridge cases stamped "RA 1941", though.

[Calif-Steve]

Not certain of the timeline, but I would guess the last shipment of rifles into the PI were Gas-Trap Garands. A "Remington" rifle was likely a M1917.

[RCS]

There are pre war photos of troops with gas port M1 rifles in the Philippine Islands plus photos that Rick the Librarian has posted of Japanese captured US weapons that do show gas port M1 rifles

[Rick the Librarian]

About 7400 M1s were present - a combination of Gas Port and Gas Trap rifles.

[Richardwv]

While I'd never say never, it is highly unlikely that a Remington 03 made it there. The first ones were accepted (vice manufactured) in Dec 1941, according to The Remington Society of America . There were no general augmentation of the garrison after the war started, so little chance of one coming in with a new Marine or soldier. Since the Army was in the process of phasing out the 03 in favor of the M-1, I can't see them shipping an 03 of any make there unless it was the previously assigned weapon of the extremely few incoming personnel, almost all of which weren't riflemen. On the other hand, the M-1917 was general issue for Filipino troops, but not US. If it was an 03, it is 99.999% certain it came from Springfield or Rock Island. If it was a pickup from a Filipino troop it could be a Remington M-1917. Since there is almost certainly an error here, to me is it more logical to get the manufacturer wrong than the model of rifle.

[Rick the Librarian]

If anybody would be interested in studying the subject of what supplies were sent to the Philippines up to the start of war and what was intended to be sent, I can't think of a better book to read than Glen Willeford's fantastic work, Racing the Sunrise: Reinforcing America's Pacific Outposts, 1941-1942. He has a list of ships' manifests and much other information.

Of specific interest to me was the fact that two infantry regiments were due to be sent to the Philippines - the 34th, which was to be used as "fillers" (replacements) for the other units of the Philippine Division, and the 161st, which was supposed to be an additional regimental combat team for the same unit. The 161st was a National Guard unit from my home state of Washington, in fact, before being called up, it had been HQed in my hometown of Spokane.

The two units got as far as the San Francisco docks before the move to the Philippines was canceled due to the outbreak of war. There would have been a lot of widows and orphans and my best friend when I was in elementary school might not have been born - his dad was with the 161st, which later was attached to the 25th Infantry Division. Ironically, both units made it to the Philippines -- in 1944-45, as part of the American forces liberating the islands.

Please pardon this interesting (to me, at least!) rabbit trail!!

[browningautorifle]

Please pardon this interesting (to me, at least!) rabbit trail!!

It all helps to explain things...

[Rick the Librarian]

I should also commend the OP for the book he is re-reading - "Doomed From the Start" by William Bartsch - bill is sort of the "John Beard" of aircraft in the Philippines. He was writing the book when I was writing my articles on the Philippines and we shared some pictures and information. His book is the last word on fighter combat in the Philippines, 1941-42.