I like the SA80

[mrclark303]

Sounds like a plan Jim... Might I just point out while the poor old L85 takes yet another beating, the proof of the pudding is in the eating.

I know a few people who have extensive front line combat experience with the A2 and thy aren't complaining, quite the opposite in fact.

It's far from perfect with regard to egronomics (to a civvy like me), but that's only an issue if you aren't familiar with the piece.

Yes, it has had a long and very troubled history, an abject lesson on how not to procure a service firearm but...

The fact of the matter is, it's here, reliable and very capable in trained hands.

As long as HK are building new barrels, receivers etc and it's still being updated, I see no point in replacing the L85A2 and it's potential A3 offshoot until a new calibre is selected by NATO.

[Peter Laidler]

Enfield 303T. You REALLY ought to read thread 2 again - and again and when you have, answer these simple questions
When was the last time you fired the A2?
Have you seen one in the flesh?
Where can I read your technical reports relating to your trials on the A2 rifle, the subject of this thread

As for the comments on the SUSAT sight......... I've never heard that one before, from ANYONE.

Having been amongst it since it was introduced AND at the start of the A2 version, I agree that I'm probably not in the best position co comment about it. There will be others better qualified...................

[Gil Boyd]

Chipping in............the early problems have been well sorted, and since Op Herrick started, the weapon platform is as good as any out there in 5.56.

All weapons develop issues if they are not cleaned, whether its desert/jungle or Sennybridge as we all know too well who have served.

I'm afraid I have to support the rifle for what is is, and does, on a daily basis, and from my findings as one who shoots it regularly and listens to the word on the street, it has proved itself in theatre.

All findings by the lads were listened to throughout the dark days, and effective amendments made very quickly. Good sound weapon left or right handed these days.

[Peter Laidler]

Adding to that, we used to debrief those returning from ops regarding their weapons and there were very few adverse comments about the rifle. The GPMG was greatest thing that ever invented of course. And when others speak of the old A1 rifles faults (and we've had the A2 for 14 or so years now don't forget.....) they ought to remember that the old AR16/M16's had their troubles to start with too. Yep.......... I was there when we got the first issues as was my late colleague, Major Maurice Fogwell - who conducted the UK/Aust/NZ jungle warfare trials.

Anyone remember the introduction of the L1A1 rifle too? I do - and recall the sharp cocking handle slide slicing two deep gouges out of your left hand. And having to unbreech and breech up the barrel at Base workshop level just to change a defective gas cylinder

[blurrededge]

I spose people will be spouting on about the SA80 A1 faults for ever now, pity really, they should make an effort to keep up to date with there firearms knowledge, all the info is out there.
And as for the SA80 not converting to left hand ejection, well that always seemed sensible in a battle rifle to me, better they all eject the same side I wouldn't want to pick up some south paws rifle in the confusion and have bunch of brass filling up my ear hole! But as I say I'm just a civvie, what do I know.

[mrclark303]

Adding to that, we used to debrief those returning from ops regarding their weapons and there were very few adverse comments about the rifle. The GPMG was greatest thing that ever invented of course. And when others speak of the old A1 rifles faults (and we've had the A2 for 14 or so years now don't forget.....) they ought to remember that the old AR16/M16's had their troubles to start with too. Yep.......... I was there when we got the first issues as was my late colleague, Major Maurice Fogwell - who conducted the UK/Aust/NZ jungle warfare trials.

Anyone remember the introduction of the L1A1 rifle too? I do - and recall the sharp cocking handle slide slicing two deep gouges out of your left hand. And having to unbreech and breech up the barrel at Base workshop level just to change a defective gas cylinder

How very true, the M16 was a disater when first introduced into Vietnam, many brave young men paid with their lives because of basic design flaws and catastrophic miss management by both the manufacturer and the D.O.D, it's inial problems were quite frankly appalling.

[Gil Boyd]

Blurredge,
It wouldn't take much for a conversion of a Ruger 10/22 action and barrel IMHO unless someone knows of someone already doing it!!?

[Flying10uk]

I seem to recall reading somewhere that the way the SA80 is designed it has certain advantages over other bull-pup rifle designs? Is anyone able to confirm this, please, and if correct explain what the advantages are.

[blurrededge]

That's an idea Gil, I could see that working quite well, perhaps a business opportunity for someone out there. To be honest though, personally I'd only want the real deal in 5.56 semi auto or nothing, I'm a bolt gun man really and although I have owned some fancy .22 semi autos in my time, just for a bit of fun! I've ended up rejecting the lot of 'em for my No8 which outshoots them all, at least the semis I've owned anyway.
I know it's tired old drum to beat but it's a shame we can't own these centre fire semis as it's a very different style of shooting to what I'm used to, I was getting pretty good at settling the foresight back on target after recoil recovery and by the end of the second mag my speed was pretty good too. I got a real taste for trying out fast and accurate. Hey ho nevermind, back to slow and accurate instead.

[enfield303t]

Enfield 303T. You REALLY ought to read thread 2 again - and again and when you have, answer these simple questions
When was the last time you fired the A2?
Have you seen one in the flesh?
Where can I read your technical reports relating to your trials on the A2 rifle, the subject of this thread

As for the comments on the SUSAT sight......... I've never heard that one before, from ANYONE.

Having been amongst it since it was introduced AND at the start of the A2 version, I agree that I'm probably not in the best position co comment about it. There will be others better qualified...................

Peter with all due respect you REALLY should admit the entire project was a disaster from the word go. It was the era in the UK where little of anything mechanical was any good. Isn't the development of the SA80 around when one of your now none existent car companies attempted to reverse engineer a Honda Accord with total failure.

So after the better part of 30 years they now have a 2 model that seems to be OK. Wow 30 years, those who allowed this to happen should collectively bow their heads in shame. They have now put lipstick on a pig when reality is they could have purchased a AR that had been in service for the better part of 20 years and reliable. Egg on the face even more now as the UK is purchasing AR platforms for some of it members, to me that is the icing on the cake.

IIRC around 800 million has been spent on development and procurement, what a unbelievable waste of taxpayers money.

(I will address mrclark303 in a direct answer about his thoughts on the AR)

My son spent a couple weeks in Vietnam with a retired Royal Marine Sgt. who hated the SA80. I was always educated to listen to a Sgt. as they are noted for telling the truth where his officer is only interested in furthering their career so rarely speak evil on anything that might damage their future.

If I ever get back to the UK would still buy you a beer and we can have a friendly discussion on this matter.