Rifle without original Bolt

[Merle]

I see so many milsurps these days without their original bolt.
Is it a stigma to buy a rifle in that condition? There are some pretty nice ones that are matching except for the bolt.
What do you think? Buy or pass?
Only Curious

For me it's a pass. I want to shoot them, and a replacement bolt may not (or may) have correct headspace, etc.

[Eaglelord17]

"...Most of all matching number firearms are collector grade..." No, they aren't. Not all 'matching' rifles are in decent enough condition and condition comes first when determining collectability.

Condition doesn't come first. Desire comes first. Collectability is subjective, and it is all based on the desire of the person wanting the rifle. What someone considers collectable changes from person to person. I personally prefer rifles with character and usage (i.e. not best condition) over many pristine rifles for the simple reason that pristine rifle sat in a armoury somewhere and never did anything. If it is to marvel at the craftsmenship (think mint South American Mausers) that is one thing, but if I want to collect used examples it is another thing all together.

[Patrick Chadwick]

Peter, you are basically correct, and I am not going to make sweeping statements for all countries, but on German rifles an armoury-fitted replacement would have the old number lined out and the new number stamped above or below it, but NOT over the original number. This was even done for such subsidiary components such as barrel bands. I have a Schulz & Larsen M69 with a heavy barrel fitted to an Imperial Gew 98 system, and the magazine floor plate has been renumbered in this way, demonstrating that they were very picky in this matter, even for a component that has nothing to do with shooting quality.

So a German rifle with a bolt that is not numbered to the barrel/receiver assembly is not original and also not armoury-fitted but a mix made by persons unknown. Even worse is when it has been force-matched by erasing the original number and stamping on another number. Erasing and overstamping of numbers on pressure-bearing components (barrel, receiver, bolt) is also an offence in Germany unless carried out by a licensed gunsmith and the functionality of the complete rifle has been validated by re-proofing. In which case, the rifle will bear new proof marks, which are also disliked by collectors. So I would stay clear of a German rifle with erased and overstamped numbers, as the collector value is kaputt. Shooter value is also low as the proof has been invalidated by what is, in effect, falsified numbering.

In this connection, I am amused by the preoccupation of the collectors of US rifles who agonize over whether a particular subsidiary component such as a barrel band is the "correct" one for Wednesday afternoon on the 10th of Octebruary 1944 when, as has already been pointed out, the functionally vital components of barrel, action body, and bolt are not number-matched. And before US-fans jump all over me, I hasten to add that my US rifles are my best milsurp shooters, regardless of numbering and "correctness".

[painter777]

the preoccupation of the collectors of US rifles who agonize over whether a particular subsidiary component such as a barrel band is the "correct" one for Wednesday afternoon on the 10th of Octebruary 1944

Patrick,
You've passed along what I believe to be one of the best definitions of 'Preoccupation' that I've stumbled across...

Preoccupation:
collectors of US rifles who agonize over whether a particular subsidiary component such as a barrel band is the "correct" one for Wednesday afternoon on the 10th of Octebruary 1944


AH HA
That nails it down to the barrel band being made on the 'Afternoon Shift' 10th Oct 44
Now just need to find which station and who was working the required machinery!

Cheers,
Charlie-Painter777