Lee Enfields: South African Modifications & Manufacture

[Terrylee]

(1) & (2) The South African “No.1 Converted”. From late 1941 to about May 1943 4,250 of these rifles were produced. They were conversions of expropriated Long Lees with worn barrels. Both Lee Enfields and Lee Metfords appear to have been used. In this “upgrade” British barrels, sights and furniture were used while nose-caps and swivels were manufactured locally. Some of these rifles retained their original dust covers and magazine cut-offs while other did not. Bolts were unchaltered resulting in Lee Metford Mk.II conversions having no safety catch. The lack of charger-bridge combined with the British-manufactured forend resulted in the very distinctive gap by which these rifles may be identified. Archival records indicate that they were used for training and issued to the Defence Rifle Associations. A few may have also ended up with the Parks Board.

(3) Magazine Lee Enfield with upgraded sighting. It is unknown exactly when this modification took place but they were on issue with the police shortly following the First World War and remained in use by the Defence Rifle Associations for many years thereafter.The South African problem with charger-guides appears to have predated the No.1 Converted!

(4) South African Bayonets produced during the Second World War. Top to bottom: Pattern 1888 Mk. III & Pat.1907 manufactured by the South African Railways, Patterns.1907 & 1913 by the Associated Engineers Company.

Information

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[RobD]

Terry,

Do you know whether the SA modified long Lees were used by SA forces in German South West Africa [now Namibia] in 1915 and in German East Africa [now Tanzania] in 1916-1918?

I can't find good photographic evidence, but the memorial in Cape Town is very realistic, and represents the South African soldier in Africa with a modified long Lee [sight protector shown] whereas the representation of a South African soldier on the Western front has an SMLE.

Rob

[RobD]

Here are the 2 statues I refer to:
Attachment 85122Attachment 85123

[browningautorifle]

First time I've seen that pattern of 1913 bayonet, I'd like one of those too...

[Terrylee]

Rob, an examination of photographs in our Military History Museum indicates that the Union Troops used both M.L.E.s and S.M.L.E.s during the German South West African Campaign. Their issue seemed to depend upon regiment. I also came across one of an artillery detachment equipped with what appeared to be Martini Enfield Artillery Carbines! I attach a photo of an S.M.L.E. Mk. I* marked to the Natal Light Horse, a regiment which only existed during the invasion of G.S.W.A. I have not investigated the rifles used in German East Africa.

Jim, I wish you good luck! Although the South African Military Archives indicate that 11,500 Pattern 1913 Bayonets were ordered from A.E.Co. and 1,800 were “finished”, I only know of about eight in collections. Personally, I suspect that their doubtful quality resulted in them being scrapped once wartime pressures had passed.

Terry

[Frederick303]

Great post, the South African mods and bayonets are something there is very little source material written on.

Do any of the RSA experts know anything about the scrubbed No 4 MK I and No 4 MK II Rhodesian rifles? These rifles were imported by Century into the US about 20 years ago and had the following characteristics:

1) The left had action markings were removed
2) The Butts had been inletted for a unit disc
3) the serial numbers had been removed form the action, bolt forend and, in some cases the magazine body., replaced with a new serial number, hand stamped on the action body (front ring and bolt.
4) Actions on the 2 I got to examine were both Fazakerely, one 1949 dated the other 1948 dated. (barrel F markings , F49,. F48)
5) Hand stamped serial numbers seen in the 900 to 2400 range.

Any knowledge on these rifles would be of interest, nothing in print on them in the US of A

[Terrylee]

Frederick, I'm afraid that the study of Rhodesian arms is outside my field and era. However, I understand that arms supplied to Rhodesia by South Africa were scrubbed of identifying numbers. I also have some Rhodesian .303 and 7.62 cartridges in my possession. In all respects they appear identical to those of South African manufacture except that the head stamp consists of just the calibre and nothing else.
Terry

[Frederick303]

Terrylee,

Thought I would ask.

I really enjoyed your post on the No1 converted and would love to see more detailed pictures. I have never seen one up close and had no idea if thy were real or a "imaginary" creation, there being so little written on it, at least here in the US. Indeed this is one of the variations not really discussed by Skennerton, your post is the most information I have ever read about the topic.

Same about the shortened 1914 rifle bayonet, I have seen pictures in the books, but never the production quantity and the fact so few existed. Never seen one in the US of A.

Here in the US there is relatively little written about SA arms, other than the few SA collector articles that have made it over here. Rifles are kind of rare as well, other then SA marked No4 rifles from the 1994 sale.

Love to see more such posts.

[Terrylee]

The major components of the South African No.1 Converted were either from the original rifle or British imports. The only significant part of South African manufacture was the nose-cap of which I attach the photo of a spare in my possession. These appear to have come in batches from two suppliers. According to the archives, the first of these were castings by the South African Railways then machined by “Steel Engineering” with the second by the “Small Arms Factory”. There is also evidence that a local order was placed for magazines, though I have not identified one as yet.
Terry

Frederick, I have sent you a private message.

[fjruple]

Great post, the South African mods and bayonets are something there is very little source material written on.

Do any of the RSA experts know anything about the scrubbed No 4 MK I and No 4 MK II Rhodesian rifles? These rifles were imported by Century into the US about 20 years ago and had the following characteristics:

1) The left had action markings were removed
2) The Butts had been inletted for a unit disc
3) the serial numbers had been removed form the action, bolt forend and, in some cases the magazine body., replaced with a new serial number, hand stamped on the action body (front ring and bolt.
4) Actions on the 2 I got to examine were both Fazakerely, one 1949 dated the other 1948 dated. (barrel F markings , F49,. F48)
5) Hand stamped serial numbers seen in the 900 to 2400 range.

Any knowledge on these rifles would be of interest, nothing in print on them in the US of A

I may have one of these rifles. It is a No.4 NK2 and apprears to have all of the marking scrubbed off except for a "serial number" 0758 near the ejector screw and the typical No.4 MK2 electro-penciled on the receiver. The rifle was well used and came with Savage No.4 MKI* bolt and a magazine with serial number with the first letter or number outlined out and the remaining numbers are 27756A. The buttstock is marked with a large L/0758. Any thoughts on this one.

--fjruple