Lee Enfields: South African Modifications & Manufacture

[Daan Kemp]

Not being an expert on this, but UDI took place long after FN/R1 were the normal issue for police and military. No 4 rifles were never seen in Rhodesia operations even when RSA forces were there clandestinely. Scrubbed No 4 rifles really need to be investigated.

[Peter Laidler]

To be really honest, the idea of scrubbing rifle numbers for clandestine use or sale to other nations or whatever is the stuff of comic books. Well, that's what Major gxxxxx Sxxxxx our 'tame' IO told me. The reasons are so bleedin' obvious, it would pain me to even insult anyones intelligence again! There ARE reasons, but clandestine reasons or most other forms of int, ain't one of them!

[Daan Kemp]

Some people's comic books, others' facts. Until you hold it in your hands in the store, being issued with it together with other similar stuff.

[TomH]

Interesting thread. Were all Long Lees converted, or did they serve in the Reserves throughout WWII as per this 1940 Pathe clip?

https://www.britishpathe.com/video/s...d/query/rifles

[Terrylee]

A relatively small proportion of the Long Lees on hand were converted into "No. 1 Converteds" of which 4,250 were produced. This program was also confined to comandeered rifles of which it is recorded that about 40,000 alone were originally available.

Archival records also contain a proposal that the program be extended to government stocks of Long Lees, but a lack of further documentation and an apparent lack of surviving conversions with South African barrels suggests that this never took place.

The records are probably incomplete but it is of interest to note that on the 31st July, 1945 government stocks of Long Lees stood at 28,938. Apparent discrepancies are probably largely accounted for by the contemporary conversions of government-held Long Lees into cadet carbines. Also, why else would new Pattern 1888 bayonets have been manufactured?

Archival information indicates that Long Lees were certainly on issue during the Second World War. Training and the Defence Rifle Associations are mentioned.

[superbee]

Terry
I had this SMLE for 20 years.South African marks on receiver,barrel and target sight.No serial # on MLE bolt.Nose cap is unmarked.No markings on forestock.BSA barrel,like new.Still has MLE butt stock.Marked 1910 enfield MK II on right and 1910 CLLE on left behind target sight.
Is this one of the rifles converted by South Africa?
Attachment 89467Attachment 89468Attachment 89469Attachment 89470

[Terrylee]

Superbee, The fact that your rifle has a charger-bridge shows that it is not a ""No.1Converted". The somewhat indistinct markings on the knoxform appear to indicate a B.S.A. commercial barrel which is typical of an earlier Union Defence Force replacement. I expect that the M.L.E. bolt was fitted following the rifle's sale as military surplus. The U.D.F. markings on the target sight suggest that it and the reconditioned rifle were purchased by a member of one of the Defence Rifle Associations or later "Skiet Kommandos". These were in effect glorified target shooting clubs where membership entitled the holders to buy rifles and accessories from the government at favourable rates. I know! I still have the rebarrelled SMLE with identical sight that I purchased in the 1960s !

[superbee]

Thanks for the info!It is one of the more interesting target rifles in my collection.

[Gil Boyd]

Fitted with a good reliable MK7 Parker Hale 5A sight too!

[RobD]

Superbee, out of interest, is the BSA barrel a cut-down Long Lee barrel, or is it an SMLE barrel? If cut down, it will have a heavier profile at the crown.
Rob