Mystery markings on my M1917

[Patrick Chadwick]

OK lads, I made a couple of mistakes. It is Azaaton, and just to be sure I made a reverse check and entered Azaaton in the online "RomajiDesu". It produced the text as on the rifle.

But I still find it totally implausible that this is a Japanese transliteration of a ship's name. That is, for me, just wishful thinking. The signature of the engraver seems more likely, as suggested in previous posts. Written in Katagana because Hiragana characters would be very awkward to chisel into the metal in the confined space.

And it certainly is a piece of work worth signing.

[xb0xisbetter]

I think that it being related to the U.S.S. Atherton is implausible as well, I did to begin with after the first translation before posting on this forum. I can't think of a situation in which someone would engrave an Anglo-Saxon name on a rifle in Japanese either though. Assuming that it was an engraver marking their work, which is at least the best theory we have so far, do we know why they would engrave their name in the barrel with fairly large katagana, when the barrel has otherwise not been engraved? It definitely isn't an aftermarket barrel, unless the WWI-era markings and rifling were being imitated. The markings on the magazine floor plate are tiny by comparison, even for the relatively small available space.

[fjruple]

I think that it being related to the U.S.S. Atherton is implausible as well, I did to begin with after the first translation before posting on this forum. I can't think of a situation in which someone would engrave an Anglo-Saxon name on a rifle in Japanese either though. Assuming that it was an engraver marking their work, which is at least the best theory we have so far, do we know why they would engrave their name in the barrel with fairly large katagana, when the barrel has otherwise not been engraved? It definitely isn't an aftermarket barrel, unless the WWI-era markings and rifling were being imitated. The markings on the magazine floor plate are tiny by comparison, even for the relatively small available space.

I would envision that the engraver probably not only engrave the parts as a signature but as an inventory to ensure that same parts went back into the same rifle after engraving. The engraver probably used the rifle owner's name as a control. The "name" engraved on the barrel is a control for the other parts being engraved which makes sense. Additionally this even makes more sense if several apprentice engravers are working on the same project. The other thing to keep in mind is that as a general Japanese population before and after WWII was prohibited access to personal firearms so they would be unfamiliar with the guns that are being engraved. I cannot speak for the processes in Japan but I am familiar with post war Germany. Usual engraving was done through two ways, the easiest way was through the local Post Exchange system which sold firearms to the US service members. The Post Exchange would have one or two engravers and gunsmiths on hand to provide these services. Sometimes the US serviceman would take parts of the firearm to get engraved directly to the engraver since the local engraver could not be in possession of a complete firearm. I have also seen this circumvented as I recall a totally 100% engraved Colt Single Action Army revolver that was given to the engraver and he would not engrave the revolver the way the US serviceman wanted. The US serviceman was totally surprised when he got his revolver back it was totally cover in Germanic style oak leave engraving, silver plated, and the backstrap was engraved the standard poetry, "be not frighted of any man no matter what his weight, shape or size, just call on me and I will equalize.." The German engraver was a American West geek who loved Cowboys and Indians. (The TV show "Bonanza" was very popular at the time in Germany and the US serviceman was from Texas.) The gun engraving only costed the serviceman about $400.00 which was a lot of money for a Captain in those days. Today who knows how much it would cost. I cannot speak for other local US Post Exchanges located in Italy and Turkey where I know the US servicemen could buy firearms. I know local gunsmiths were available but I do not know about engravers. I believe a lot of the engraving was encouraged by the local military governments after WWII as these folks are extremely talented and needed work to feed their families. When I was on active duty in 2000 in Germany these local Post Exchange gun buying and engraving had disappeared to conform with local laws.
Just my two cents worth

--fjruple

[xb0xisbetter]

Thank you for the information, fjruple.

I wouldn't say that really settles it, but it is more likely than anything else we've thought of yet. It does, again, bring up more questions than answers though. Supposing this was a Japanese engraver, engraving the last name of the customer on the rifle, and engraving in multiple locations to ensure that matching parts went back together into the same rifle, why only the magazine floor plate and barrel? They're already mismatched at that point. You would think if anything would need fitting if mixed up, it would be the bolt to the receiver, which was not engraved at all (although maybe they didn't even remove the bolt throughout the whole process). The magazine itself is also not engraved, which pretty much just falls out when the rifle is disassembled. I'm no expert on the subject, but weren't various types and/or treatments of steels used on different rifle components, as needed, even as far back as WWI as well? That would make using the barrel as a control a little pointless, unless they were certain that this was no the case. It also seems like an awful lot of work for just keeping track of which parts go to which rifle.

Assuming that all of the engraved components are made of the exact same type of steel, with the same treatment, and the engraver was aware of this (or was completely aloof of this and assumed as much), the idea that multiple engravers were getting a feel for the material would definitely possibly explain there being 3 separate engravings of the same name.

That Single Action Army story is fascinating. It must be beautiful.

[fjruple]

I guess the thing we will really never know for certain about the history of the rifle without going back to the previous owners. I know the Japanese captured well in excess of 200,000 M1917 rifles which were supplied to the Philippine Army in the late 1930's. Without going back to the owner who sporterized the rifle its going to be impossible to determine specifics.

--fjruple

PS-- Having seen the fully engraved Colt SSA Revolver you could not but love the workmanship on the revolver. I wish it was mine, I was considering having one done myself but I was leaving for back in the States.