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  1. #21
    Advisory Panel Brian Dick's Avatar
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    Are you sure the WCC 81 isn't Mk.7z? It's usually Mk.8z that will keyhole if the throat erosion in the barrel is well cut with cordite Mk.7. The best surplus I've ever had was FNM 71 Portuguese MK.7z. We tested it all for accuracy and nothing else held a candle to it. I bought 10,000 rounds from Century Arms when they had it. I still use it for test firing rifles here.

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    A Collector's View - The SMLE Short Magazine Lee Enfield 1903-1989. It is 300 8.5x11 inch pages with 1,000+ photo’s, most in color, and each book is serial-numbered.  Covering the SMLE from 1903 to the end of production in India in 1989 it looks at how each model differs and manufacturer differences from a collecting point of view along with the major accessories that could be attached to the rifle. For the record this is not a moneymaker, I hope just to break even, eventually, at $80/book plus shipping.  In the USA shipping is $5.00 for media mail.  I will accept PayPal, Zelle, MO and good old checks (and cash if you want to stop by for a tour!).  CLICK BANNER to send me a PM for International pricing and shipping. Manufacturer of various vintage rifle scopes for the 1903 such as our M73G4 (reproduction of the Weaver 330C) and Malcolm 8X Gen II (Unertl reproduction). Several of our scopes are used in the CMP Vintage Sniper competition on top of 1903 rifles. Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Specializing in premium ammunition and reloading components. Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

  3. #22
    Legacy Member old tanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Dickicon View Post
    Are you sure the WCC 81 isn't Mk.7z? It's usually Mk.8z that will keyhole if the throat erosion in the barrel is well cut with cordite Mk.7. The best surplus I've ever had was FNM 71 Portuguese MK.7z. We tested it all for accuracy and nothing else held a candle to it. I bought 10,000 rounds from Century Arms when they had it. I still use it for test firing rifles here.
    You maybe right, but I seem to remember the bullet weight as 180 grain, it was all fired long ago. A couple of the Vickers barrels I have are stamped with a "7." The erosion and subsequent inaccuracy problems you mentioned were pretty well documented. I never came cross the FNM ammo when it was available, sounds like missed an opportunity, although I may not have had the sense to keep some round as reference ammo. I have a case of South African MkVIIz left, but the WCC and HXP are long gone. The mid fifties Radway Green and assorted POFicon are all the surplus blasting ammo left. For more serious target shooting, I do like reloading. the Hornady 174 grain bullet and Reloder 15.

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  5. #23
    Advisory Panel Brian Dick's Avatar
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    Both Mk.7/7z, (flat base), and Mk.8z, (boat tail), have 174 grain projectiles. The Mk.8z was for use in the Vickers MMG. I still have a .50 cal can full of the WCC 81. I just looked and the headstamp doesn't show Mk.7z or Mk.8z. I think it's Mk.7z as Winchester has been set up to produce it since WWII. I found a couple of boxes of '43 dated at the SAR East show in Pennsylvania in June 2015. It's great stuff with great brass for reloading too. I think Winchester is missing the boat by not producing it again for the civilian market at a reasonable price. The Remington-UMC Mk.7z is still available but they've priced it so high that most won't buy it. They opt for S&B or PPU Czechicon and Serbian made Mk.8z and it won't perform well in some rifles with throat erosion caused by cordite.

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    Legacy Member harry mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Dickicon View Post
    . The Remington-UMC Mk.7z is still available but they've priced it so high that most won't buy it. They opt for S&B or PPU Czechicon and Serbian made Mk.8z and it won't perform well in some rifles with throat erosion caused by cordite.
    Brian, I managed to pick up some Remington 174grn FMJ cartridges (green & white boxes) last year in an auction over here. Out of curiosity, I pulled a bullet to have a look and it bore a striking resemblance (that is to say, "identical") to the 174grn PPU bullets I usually reload with. Are Remington buying in components from PPU?

  7. #25
    Advisory Panel Brian Dick's Avatar
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    Are the Remington-UMC cartridges sporting Mk.8 spec boat tails now? As far as I know, Winchester and Remington produced a Mk.7 equivalent projectile for their ammo but maybe that's changed. Winchester doesn't even have an offering anymore. It wouldn't surprise me that they are outsourcing components. To be honest, I've lost a lot of respect for Remington since they were bought out by Freedom Group several years ago. It would seem that the quality control on their firearms and ammo has deteriorated along with the change in ownership/management. I sincerely hope they rectify the problems.

    The American ammo manufacturers are missing a great opportunity to produce correct 174 grain, Mk.7z specification ammunition at a reasonable price. We know they can do it. The demand is there too but it MUST be reasonably priced.

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    Legacy Member old tanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Dickicon View Post
    The Mk.8z was for use in the Vickers MMG.
    Most of the .303 I shoot is in the Vickers. It came with one barrel already stamped with a "7." Its barrels are considerably easier to change to suit the bullet than a rifle's.

    Both my Enfields, the No.1 Mk III* and the No. 4 Mk I/2 are well-worn and boat tail bullets are a waste of time. It does not matter what brand or who loaded the ammunition.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Dick View Post
    The American ammo manufacturers are missing a great opportunity to produce correct 174 grain, Mk.7z specification ammunition at a reasonable price. We know they can do it. The demand is there too but it MUST be reasonably priced.
    Some time ago there was a vendor selling pulled .303 bullets at Knob Creek. Based on the color, I assumed they were cupro-nickel jacketed salvage from POFicon .303 that was more click than boom. I do not know if they were a true Mk VII bullet as I never sectioned one to see. The last I saw with aluminum in the tip was South African.



    I believe that a more conventional design FMJ was loaded in the long gone WCC 81 and HXP 86.



    Club match shooters with their old military rifles would probably like a flat based .312 dia. version Hornady's 174 FMJ. Are there enough buyers to make it worth tooling up such a bullet?

  9. #27
    Advisory Panel browningautorifle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old tanker View Post
    Are there enough buyers to make it worth tooling up such a bullet?
    I'd say so...just here alone.
    Regards, Jim

  10. #28
    Advisory Panel Brian Dick's Avatar
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    I went around with Sierra Bullets in 2011-12 trying to get them to produce a FB Mk.7 equivalent and even supplied them pulled Mk.7 projectiles from Canadianicon and Britishicon cartridges for study. When the 2013 nonsense occurred, the project was shelved. They told me they'd resurrect it but I'd have to cough up the cash for a million projectiles before they'd even think about it!

    I still prefer the .311 180 grain Pro-Hunter as my projectile of choice for .303 British reloads.

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  12. #29
    Advisory Panel browningautorifle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Dickicon View Post
    the .311 180 grain Pro-Hunter
    Our problem is getting anything actually here. Our people have to buy from certain distributors, Brian knows about this sort of malarky all to well I'm sure. They want paid in full right away and bills of $75,000 can occur without trouble. They don't get some of this stuff and cost counts. Best we can get is cast off or pulled bullets from Yugoicon or Russiaicon I guess. They'd be 7.62x54 bullets too...not these beautiful FMJ .303.
    Regards, Jim

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