Lee Enfield No4 Mk1 Sling Question

[usabaker]

I've noticed that there a wide variety of sling colors. Is there a reason like Kacki for Europen theater, Green for the Asian theater, Blue Navy?

Just curious if anyone knows.

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[22SqnRAE]

I've noticed that there a wide variety of sling colors. Is there a reason like Kacki for Europen theater, Green for the Asian theater, Blue Navy?

Just curious if anyone knows.

Good question, Bill. Another Commonwealth idiosyncrasy. Like many, may possibly best left as is...

Moving from firm to flimsy knowledge:

1. Post War, the RAF adopted blue slings. Parade slings were often Blancoed white, and some were made white. So we can put those those in a a box and be comfortable.
2. Throughout the war, the British '37 pattern webbing was modified as it evolved a little. Pre-1937, the Khaki colour was more or less a straw yellow colour for webbing. Post 1942(ish) the webbing seen on more and more European Theatre troops was more of a light olivey green colour. Recall that the Commonwealth troops were made from many nations and the blending of each nation's supplies entering the logistic chain meant there was always some minor variations. The Kiwis, for example, went to North Africa then stayed around to join in the Mediterranean campaign. They, like Australians, went to North Africa with pretty much pre-'37 webbing, mixed in with the newer '37 equipment. First to go had the all the new gear, but as reinforcements were sent, war stocks were accessed as local manufacture slowly built up new stuff. I'd suggest the Canadians and South Africans had a similar situaiton, though Canada was better equipped with an industrial base to produce more materiel, quicker. Indians would have relied upon a mixture of old Imperial stocks, British stores issues in theatre and their own replacements to a smaller extent.
3. As the war moved towards the East, the Indian/Asian campaign called for changes from the 'desert' yellow khaki to jungle green. As such, webbing and clothing was produced in green, not "yellow" khaki. This green colour was deeper than the olivey green seen on Commonwealth troops in the European Theatre. Strangely, often Commonwealth troops will call both yellow and green "khaki" (when it really isn't!) Case in point, when the Australians were withdrawn form North Africa to defend Australia from Japanese invasion via New Guinea (PNG now) the refitting and re kitting process saw Units bulk dyeing their yellow desert khaki uniforms and equipment to the jungle green colour. New clothing wasn't available and took time to manufacture. Many troops did move from refitting and retraining in Australia to New Guinea with 'yellow' khaki webbing.
4. If you are able to get your hands on a sample of, say, Canadian, US, British, South African, Australian, New Zealand and Indian made 'yellow' khaki slings, you'd notice that there would be slight to distinct colour differences between them. This is the result of war time contracting, shortage of raw material and the expediency of turning out fit-for-purpose equipment close to, but not always perfectly aligned with specifications (which, in fairness, were not always particularly accurate, definitive or lucid.)

Not definitive, and apology for long response, but hope that helps cast a little light on the realities of trying to keep many troops in various theatres supplies with limited resources.

[Strangely Brown]

Post war khaki slings in service with RTR, RE, RA and certain Infantry regiments were blackened with boot polish. This was by no means universal and sometimes only done in training and depot units.
After finishing boys service and getting posted to my first regiment the mix of slings was unbelievable, khaki, green, black, and I think we even had some of the new nylon? dark green slings circa 1970.

[Peter Laidler]

When the old*cotton slings were issued fresh from from Ordnance they were always impregnated with a sort of waxy like stuff that served as a preservative. As such, they didn't take blanco - or anything really - until they were scrubbed in soapy water. And that's when the rot set in........., literally in this case! They did come in various khaki colours apart from the obvious blue/grey for the RAF...., as if they were going to wear it in the sky for heavens sake...... I never saw an original white set of webbing but did see almost white, that had started its life as normal khaki and been bleached and scrubbed to within an inch of its life. Slings, gaiters and web belts like this were kept in the Q-Masters and dished out for ceremonial stuff as and when. The sort of ceremonial stuff us REME types avoided like the plague.

In real Army life during the days of 37 pattern webbing the COLOUR of the webbing issued at the unit/Corps/Regiment remained the same and was blancoed or blackened regardless of what colour was underneath/original. Some regiments such as the Cheshire Regt had a deep olive drab waxy type waterless brush-on blanco. Same as the Light Infantry, some had black. You kept that clean and polished stacked on top of your bedside locker in a set order. After a little while everyone(?) had obtained a second set of 'skeleton order' already made up for fit and size for Military Training days. For those who really live in the land of the fairies regarding webbing and colour etc etc ought to look at it and you'll find that even things like the large pack, small pack, cross straps etc etc where they're made from loads of bits sewn together, the individual pieces are different colours and weaves. The actual webbing spec would have a weave and colour spec but it must have been a fairly wide spec......, a bit like 'mild steel.....'

In the 60's, some of the units still had 'equipment repairers'. Our big workshops used to have them and they would repair all this kit where possible. All the buckles and fittings were available in the VAOS catalogue.

Nope....., webbing..... Doesn't row my boat either! One set stuck on the top of my locker and another set in the Armourers shop for range work

[gew8805]

The common British webbing sling, was part of neither the P.08 nor P.37 gear. It was accepted into British service as the Sling, rifle, web, G.S., Mark I on January 31, 1901 under the List of Changes §10442. It is more commonly known as the "Sling, rifle, web, G.S. Mark I or Mark II" and it remained in use as an item of issue to front line British troops until at least the Gulf War of 1991.

For the story on construction variations including colors and hardware variations see

Weapons: Slings

The above comes to us from the website "Karkee Web", an excellent source of information on British and Empire equipment.

[browningautorifle]

We were still issuing the plain colored ones to troops in training until the middle '70's. All well used of course...

[Peter Laidler]

As were ours BAR. Some had the date on the end buckles. Quite a versatile bit of kit too when used as a sort of toggle rope. But scrubbing, cleaning, drying and then re-blancoing this stuff left me with an aversion to it. As for collecting the stuff............. Well, as they say, some people collect man-hole covers!

[GeeRam]

But scrubbing, cleaning, drying and then re-blancoing this stuff left me with an aversion to it. As for collecting the stuff............. Well, as they say, some people collect man-hole covers!

[green]

Canadian slings made in the 50s were olive colour to match the P1951 web gear.

[usabaker]

Not definitive, and apology for long response

No apology needed! this was great information and I really appreciate it. When, errr.. if I get the Savage No4 Mk1* I want, then I wanted to get a sling that would be historically correct. since it will not come with it.