1942 Lithgow No1 paint marking question

[muffett.2008]

Correct Pete, When doing Preservation and Storage Inspections as per EMEI Weapons A 144-1, items found to be defective, damaged, corroded or missing parts outside the Scope of the RAAOC or Unit Repair system, were given a splash of red paint as opposed to stamping the butt and forwarded to a RAEME Base Repair Facility for Re-inspection , Classification and Repair if warranted.


Items found to be out of repair parameters were marked UR and set aside for an Inspection Officer/Board of Survey.

[Gil Boyd]

.................and of course white banded UK & Commonwealth weapons denoting deactivated and often seen with Cadet units at memorials.

[browningautorifle]

why not just paint a red band on it and be done with it instead of a green band and two red dots.

Guess you'd have to pose that to the guy doing the painting.

[Homer]

The green band might have already existed on the rifle.

[kpj53]

The green band might have already existed on the rifle.

Thats possible, but if you have the red paint and the brush in your hand why not red paint over the green band if the rifle was not to be fired.

I have never read anywhere where any color paint dots are applied but plenty of info on the green/yellow/red bands.

[Bindi2]

Thats possible, but if you have the red paint and the brush in your hand why not red paint over the green band if the rifle was not to be fired.

I have never read anywhere where any color paint dots are applied but plenty of info on the green/yellow/red bands.

Remember this was at the end of the SMLE life at the hands of the cadets who didn't have the means to repair rifles and had limited means to signify problems at their end. There may only have been a screw missing hence the red dob.

[Homer]

Thats possible, but if you have the red paint and the brush in your hand why not red paint over the green band if the rifle was not to be fired.

I have never read anywhere where any color paint dots are applied but plenty of info on the green/yellow/red bands.

And you may never find any published information on the red dots, but two retired commonwealth armorers have responded to your thread. Id take note of the information,

[kpj53]

Remember this was at the end of the SMLE life at the hands of the cadets who didn't have the means to repair rifles and had limited means to signify problems at their end. There may only have been a screw missing hence the red dob.

When the rifle was imported the front sight was loose as well as the buttstock, so the seller assumed the red dots were there for that. Sounded plausible but was just trying to make sure. Mostly because if I sold it down the road I didnt want it to be an 'unsafe' rifle.

---------- Post added at 01:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:45 AM ----------

And you may never find any published information on the red dots, but two retired commonwealth armorers have responded to your thread. Id take note of the information,

Trust me I always appreciate when Peter and the other retired armorers (and anyone else for that matter) take the time to type something out.

I'm just discussing, not disagreeing with anyone

[muffett.2008]

The question that should be asked, is how a firearm with provisional major repair indicators, found it's way into the system without the marks being removed.

The firearm in question was found to be defective to the extent that it required backloading to a Base Repair Facility...….this means that the repair was beyond the scope of the RAEME attached to the Unit or Inspection Team that identified the fault.

If the repair was beyond the scope of the Base Workshop(highly unlikely) the firearm would be either classified UR, or if it was a receiver problem and replaceable, marked FR and sent to factory where it would have gone through an FTR program.

Once the firearm was repaired by Base Workshops, it would be returned to Unit, if forwarded to Factory, a replacement would be issued to the holding Unit to maintain their holdings.
All paint markings would be removed after either Base Repair or FTR, as the firearm would have been restored to as new condition.(this includes the Cadet paint band)

As this rifle was FTR'd it means that the downgrade to Cadet green was after the FTR date, the further downgrade and marking for Base Repair would have been from the Cadet Unit storage, or possibly about 1980 when the rifles were withdrawn from Cadet Units.


To have survived with the red paint intact is an indicator that the firearm was never repaired...….maybe sold as is with the JJCO purchases.

[kpj53]

The question that should be asked, is how a firearm with provisional major repair indicators, found it's way into the system without the marks being removed.

The firearm in question was found to be defective to the extent that it required backloading to a Base Repair Facility...….this means that the repair was beyond the scope of the RAEME attached to the Unit or Inspection Team that identified the fault.

If the repair was beyond the scope of the Base Workshop(highly unlikely) the firearm would be either classified UR, or if it was a receiver problem and replaceable, marked FR and sent to factory where it would have gone through an FTR program.

Once the firearm was repaired by Base Workshops, it would be returned to Unit, if forwarded to Factory, a replacement would be issued to the holding Unit to maintain their holdings.
All paint markings would be removed after either Base Repair or FTR, as the firearm would have been restored to as new condition.(this includes the Cadet paint band)

As this rifle was FTR'd it means that the downgrade to Cadet green was after the FTR date, the further downgrade and marking for Base Repair would have been from the Cadet Unit storage, or possibly about 1980 when the rifles were withdrawn from Cadet Units.


To have survived with the red paint intact is an indicator that the firearm was never repaired...….maybe sold as is with the JJCO purchases.

Great post, thank you. This is not a JJCO, its an IA CO, one of the many importers from the 80s-90s. Most likely they came from the same batches that JJCO got them from. I have seen many rifles with the bands painted on the stocks of all colors floating around for years so who knows what stores they came from. Plus many with the yellow painted noses I still see at shows for sale. Of course you never know if that stock even belonged on that particular rifle, many dealers/buyers swapped stocks and removed the paint bands.

Not to drift off topic too much but here in the states on the M1903s they welded the barrel to the receiver, welded a rod in the chamber, welded the face of the bolt shut and welded the magazine cutoff so the bolt could not be removed when they were converted to drill rifles for VFW and ROTC parade/drill use. After all of that many were converted back to firing status when 1903 prices started soaring in the last few years. It is a fair amount of work to put one back in firing condition (and some safety concerns as well) but there are thousands of new WWII era barrels around, many bolts and stocks as well so you have to be careful when buying a 1903 these days. My son took some pictures of the rack of 1903 rifles they still use in JROTC (high school cadet sort of) for parade/drill and most are over 100 years old. Certainly getting their use out of those things

Thanks again everyone for the replies, I was going to restock this one but I think I'll just leave it as is. Not wartime history but interesting none the less.