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Thread: Current spec U.K./E.U. deactivated Thompson SMG's

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  1. #31
    Advisory Panel browningautorifle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by philb View Post
    the numbers don't match
    That's not so unusual for specially M1icon or M1 A1 Thompsons. They would reuse uppers or lowers as required and they would just use as was without restriking numbers. Their spares were a vouple lowers in the tool box.

    Also after the war, the groups that received these to surplus didn't care about matching anything. I've seen an MG34 that had different numbers front and back in my city while the "Matching" gun was sent across the country. These mismatches didn't matter to surplus dealers. Just a complete parts list to sell.
    Regards, Jim

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  3. #32
    Legacy Member GeeRam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by browningautorifleicon View Post
    That's not so unusual for specially M1icon or M1 A1 Thompsons. They would reuse uppers or lowers as required and they would just use as was without restriking numbers.
    Yep, my Savage M1928 has been through an arsenal rebuild, getting a parkerised finish, and mismatched upper and lowers.

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    Matching numbers are more commonly found on prewar guns that were owned by agencies, police departments or private individuals. Many just sat in safes for decades and got little use. Now, when they come up for sale many still have a good bit of their original finish.

    Today a transferable all matching 98% 21AC will run you around $40k. They are investments, doomed to spend the rest of their lives in some collector’s safe.

    A “Cheap” shooter West Hurley will only set you back about $15K. They were 21’s that were converted at the factory to semi-autos (M1927) and later converted to full-auto. So, they don’t have all matching parts.

  7. #34
    Advisory Panel browningautorifle's Avatar
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    The ones in the UKicon are deactivated and as such have been through a company that took them apart, welded and ground and set parts solid...mixed them up and assembled them. Same troubles that happened when they came into Canadaicon in the mid '80's and were changed to semi auto only, called converted autos. I had hands on a pair of MG 34s that had the halves swapped and then sold half the country apart. They came together again for bluing so I discovered it and got the owners together to reunite the matching parts. When they're being messed with by civilians for profit, matching or correct doesn't matter.

    Another reason they are mixed up...
    Regards, Jim

  8. #35
    Legacy Member GeeRam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by browningautorifleicon View Post
    The ones in the UK are deactivated and as such have been through a company that took them apart, welded and ground and set parts solid...mixed them up and assembled them.
    Not always. Depends who did the de-act work etc.

    My other '28, an original Britishicon issue, very late manufacture, Auto Ordnance made M1928A1, still has its original finish and matching numbered upper and lower.

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    Contributing Member mrclark303's Avatar
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    I used to have a lovely Savage M1A1icon, very sensitive old spec deac (cock and click) with matching numbers and vertually full original finish.

    Sold it some 10 years ago now, I'll dig out the pictures when I get a chance.

    One of the (now long defunct) Charnwiod Ordinance jobs, so typically for them, they placed a welded and blind pinned steel rod mid barrel, slotted the chamber area, but left it clear.

    They also "typically" left about half of the Breech Block intact.

    Quite safe and "deactivated", but they pushed the law as far as they could, to give collectors the best possible piece.

    All submitted to the proof house and correctly marked and certificated, so perfectly legal to own.

    That said, I am still amazed the Proof House accepted clear chambers. The Home Office guidence of the time was quite clear regarding obstruction of the chamber on long arms, blind cross pinning with hardened steel pins, or rodding and welding up the bore right into the chamber area was the norm.

    Most (but not all) Charnood old specs were done in a similar fashion, I've seen various examples of their sensitive work over the years, from Thompson's, M1 Carbines, Garands, L1A1's, various Webley and Enfield revolvers and 1911A1's.

    Most worked to a similar sensitive and we'll engineered standard.

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  12. #37
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    I have Charnwoods in my collection. L1A1, STENs, Enfield Mk3 and a few Brens, all nicely done. I also have some nice WWA and Ryton deacs which are nice. Although it’s never nice to irreparably put something beyond use, at least it can/could be done with the care and attention of a professional engineer and not just set to with a grinder and gas axe!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brit plumber View Post
    I have Charnwoods in my collection. L1A1, STENs, Enfield Mk3 and a few Brens, all nicely done. I also have some nice WWA and Ryton deacs which are nice. Although it’s never nice to irreparably put something beyond use, at least it can/could be done with the care and attention of a professional engineer and not just set to with a grinder and gas axe!
    The only Charnood I kept was an early old spec MK2 Sten, beautifully engineered deac job.

    I know what you're saying regards deacs, but here (as in most countries), firearms like the Sten have no other possible outlet.

    Only scrapping.

    I don't know if your L1 was the same, but mine had retained the piston, with the piston bands carefully ground off one side and the face slightly champhed in the same direction. That's attention to detail!

    Much easier to simply remove it.

    At the other end of the spectrum, I cosmetically rebuild an all matching L1A1 for someone a couple of years ago. A very tatty rifle that had been butcherd by some animal.

    No machining done there, oh no, it was all done with a grinderet! Random slots cut along the barrel and the chamber assaulted with bird sh*t standard welding.

    The gas tube had simply been cut off with the grinder either end.

    In short, a sorry, lazy *** mess!
    Last edited by mrclark303; 06-25-2018 at 04:01 AM.

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  16. #39
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    hi, I know this a common pic of Churchill , but the front grip modification interests me, did they ever use this mod in ww2 ?

    horizontal for grip with pistol grip ?

    Winston Churchills ammo standard

  17. #40
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    This 28 is an American rather than Britishicon contract gun but there were many unofficial forward pistol grip modifications carried out in the field. The only official pistol grip was the one supplied on the early guns.

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