first adjustable sights used how early

[relic1864]

Could the adjustable rear sight possibly have been used as early as Feb 1944? I know an old Marine from the Pacific War that said his had the adjustable rear sight that he used in his first battle at Parry Island in the Marshall Islands,

Information

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[painter777]

Could the adjustable rear sight possibly have been used as early as Feb 1944?

Not on a M1 Carbine.
First style rear adj sight was called a T21 which would allow for elevation and windage . It was recommended for adoption on Jan 14, 1943, approved on Feb 11, 1943, but then cancelled in Nov of 43 IIrC. This T21 was the model never used, but lets say improved to bring about what we know today as: The Milled and Stamped rear sights. With that said....... The Modifications to the T21 were worked on thru the summer and early fall of 1943. Now the new and improved (accepted) Milled and Stamped rear sights both came in to supply at about the same time. Orders being placed about April of 1944 and use beginning in May of 1944. They were limited in supply and slow to get around. Inland started using rear adj sites earlier than most, like the above May 44 date. Winchester was later in the year of 44.

Now I could be all wet.... but this is the information I recall. Adj rear sights... roughly May-June of 1944 and as supplied until end of production.

BTW... Welcome To The Forum,

Cheers,
Charlie-Painter777

P.S. Bruce and Bobg from Nigeria, How'd I do ?

[Bruce McAskill]

About March 1944 for the first adjustable rear sights. Then the carbine was sent to a distribution center and then on to a point of issue. Could be in the states or could be in theater that it was issued. Point is this all took time and it would depend on where he was when it was issued to him. They didn't show up in Europe till after Germany surrendered and the occupation troops fresh from the states had them. There would have been a few used as replacements for sights that had been damaged earlier. Some troops fighting in the Pacific like in the Philippines or Okinawa in 1945 had them.

As Charlie said it was Inland that started using them first. Both the machined type 2 and stamped type 3 were in use at the same time. But they were in short supply. Underwood never did use them. The remaining makers used them if they got them and mostly at the end of their production.

[relic1864]

He did say his carbine was an Inland and it was issued in Hawaii just before they went into action .

[painter777]

That would have been planned well in advance.
I wonder if he's thinking of the L shaped Flip rear sight as a adj ?

Either way, Thank him for his service.

VR
Charlie-Painter777

[DaveHH]

My 5.6 Win has a Hemphill made type 3 (stamped) that looks to be fitted at the factory, it was made in March of 1944. At that time Winchester was mixing flip and type 3s by availability. My Inland 5.4 was made 8/44 and came with a PI type 2 sight.

[USGI]

I have a 5.6 Win that has a type 1, and a 5.4 Inland with a type 3. - Bob

[Bruce McAskill]

Well if your vet landed on Parry Island then he used a carbine with the type 1 flip sight. US forces landed on Parry Island February 22nd 1944. The adjustable rear sights didn't start till the following month of March. There was some hard fighting on Parry Island. Lots of spider holes.

[DaveHH]

Consider that the battle for Iwo Jima was fought Feb-Mar 45. That battle was planned and trained for exclusively for that island the 5th Marines being formed just for that fight if I recall. They trained in Hawaii loaded up and took off. One stop in Australia and then non stop straight for Iwo Jima. If you fell overboard, too bad, they were not stopping. It is probably a safe bet that many carbines issued to the 5th were new right off the shelf. That would mean a lot of type 2-3 sights. Okinawa was to follow and it was even bigger.

[imarangemaster]

My dad had an Inland on Iwo when he landed on D-Day +6, and it had an adjustable rear sight, but no bayonet lug.