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  1. #11
    Member flintlock28's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fjruple View Post
    Flintlock28--

    What you describe is normal for both the Pattern 1914 and Model of 1917 Enfield. In this condition you can insert a small C-clap between the cocking piece and bolt sleeve to disassemble the firing pin assembly from the bolt a lot easier.

    --fjruple
    Thank you, I thought it was normal, but I wasn't positive. I was beginning to think the bolt/safety had some type of weird wear pattern, and this was a result.


    By the way....the bore was/is a little frosted by I'm assuming old mercuric primers. You can't see anything, but the bore has a slightly rough feel to it, when running a phosphor brush down it.

    I did use Wipe-out copper cleaner, and removed a lot of copper. I also used a little bit of JB non-embedding compound, and this has made the bore a little smoother. At the range at 100 yards, I got about 5 or 6 inch groups. Is there anything else I can try to smooth out the bore?

    thanx

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  3. #12
    Advisory Panel chuckindenver's Avatar
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    even if it closes on the tool.
    felt resistance on the gauge is a pass. flopping down easy is a fail.
    by your post, id say your ok.
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  5. #13
    Member flintlock28's Avatar
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    Yep, the bolt would probably need about 15 degrees more rotation to close....so i think I'm good.

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    Senior Member RC20's Avatar
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    The safety back when you close it is the way to release the striker assembly (aka firing pin)

    The best and easiest thing to use is a plastic bread clip that is cut a bit larger (slips over hte shaft)

    put it in the gap, open the bolt and wallah, it screw the striker out.

    Not sure how you stripped the bolt without doing that? Head space gauges don't like it do to the powerful cam action if left in.

    note: I will work on the SAAMI thing. https://www.milsurps.com/images/smilies/mad_smile.gif

    ---------- Post added at 01:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:25 PM ----------

    I did use Wipe-out copper cleaner, and removed a lot of copper. I also used a little bit of JB non-embedding compound, and this has made the bore a little smoother. At the range at 100 yards, I got about 5 or 6 inch groups. Is there anything else I can try to smooth out the bore?
    You might try Bore Tech eliminator and Carbon Killer 2000. I have cleaned some awful looking bores down to pristine new looking with those two.

    Reloading is the best way to get accuracy. 4350 works good in these, flat base bullets. Some use the oversize .311 from a 303. That would be last resort for me.

  7. #15
    Senior Member oldfoneguy's Avatar
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    I know I'm a little late to the thread but I believe I may have some helpful input.

    For starters a M1917 with a full length military barrel in a cut down stock will never be as accurate as that same barreled action in a full length military stock. These rifles were designed to have some upward pressure on the barrel at the fore end of the stock. Without it the barrel whips way too much. When I had my M1917 in a sporter stock you could actually feel the barrel push down to the lower right as the bullet exited the barrel. I had 7 range buddies shoot it and they all felt it happen, not really good for accuracy.



    To work with what you have hand loading would be key. As suggested a flat base bullet is step one in a M1917. My rifle's favorite pet load after years of trial and error is a 150gr flat base bullet with 51grs of IMR 4064 behind it. I've tried heavier bullets and different powder combinations and this particular load shines in my rifle. My barrel seems to like extra bullet speed over M2 ball. This combination in a full length barrel will provide 2850fps. IMR 4895 and 4350 are a very close 2nd and 3rd.

    Next is to deal with the shortcomings of the rifle itself. Very slow lock time and a somewhat muddy trigger don't help either. I suggest a cock on opening lock from Numrich. It cuts the lock time in half getting the bullet out of the barrel much faster which improves accuracy. A Timney trigger can be added to eliminate the muddy trigger pull which also improves accuracy greatly. Personally I run a combination of the 2 which has transformed my M1917 into a quasi target rifle. Be aware however when using these 2 items together the sear portion of the cocking piece has to be built up or it will be dangerously short and the rifle could go off with a slight impact. If you don't weld I would strongly suggest it be done by a professional.

    I have been tinkering with my M1917 for 34 years and at times have actually reduced accuracy but in the end have greatly improved it to the point that if I shoot greater than a 1/2" group I'm having a bad day. Bill

  8. #16
    Member flintlock28's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldfoneguy View Post
    I know I'm a little late to the thread but I believe I may have some helpful input.

    For starters a M1917 with a full length military barrel in a cut down stock will never be as accurate as that same barreled action in a full length military stock. These rifles were designed to have some upward pressure on the barrel at the fore end of the stock. Without it the barrel whips way too much. When I had my M1917 in a sporter stock you could actually feel the barrel push down to the lower right as the bullet exited the barrel. I had 7 range buddies shoot it and they all felt it happen, not really good for accuracy.

    To work with what you have hand loading would be key. As suggested a flat base bullet is step one in a M1917. My rifle's favorite pet load after years of trial and error is a 150gr flat base bullet with 51grs of IMR 4064 behind it. I've tried heavier bullets and different powder combinations and this particular load shines in my rifle. My barrel seems to like extra bullet speed over M2 ball. This combination in a full length barrel will provide 2850fps. IMR 4895 and 4350 are a very close 2nd and 3rd.

    Next is to deal with the shortcomings of the rifle itself. Very slow lock time and a somewhat muddy trigger don't help either. I suggest a cock on opening lock from Numrich. It cuts the lock time in half getting the bullet out of the barrel much faster which improves accuracy. A Timney trigger can be added to eliminate the muddy trigger pull which also improves accuracy greatly. Personally I run a combination of the 2 which has transformed my M1917 into a quasi target rifle. Be aware however when using these 2 items together the sear portion of the cocking piece has to be built up or it will be dangerously short and the rifle could go off with a slight impact. If you don't weld I would strongly suggest it be done by a professional.

    I have been tinkering with my M1917 for 34 years and at times have actually reduced accuracy but in the end have greatly improved it to the point that if I shoot greater than a 1/2" group I'm having a bad day. Bill
    That is great information......

    If the rifle were mine, I'd go the route that you suggested. However, it belongs to a relative of mine, and he's giving it to His Son. It probably won't see more than 40 rounds a year thru the barrel.

    After using Jb bore compound, I did get the groups down to about 3 inches, at 100 yards, so that's "minute of deer", which is just fine for the 100 yard, or shorter shots He might encounter. I also re-blued all the Metal using Oxpho-blue (a cold bluing compound), and it came out rather nice. I would prefer to go the slow rust blue method, but my relative wants it done cheap. I also am steaming out the dents in the wood, sanding it down, and applying Lacquer, or Dye along with Lacquer.

  9. #17
    Senior Member RobSmith's Avatar
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    I personally would tend to say you are ok since military surplus in general tend to have rather generous headspace. That being said I would consider using only handloads in her, loaded on the light side and only using brass that was fireformed in that specific chamber.

  10. #18
    Senior Member RC20's Avatar
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    Agreed on reloads, light, have no issue with going to mid and mid high.

    I shoot at most 100 yards so I don't need anything flat. I go with the lowest that shoots ok.

    I do separate out brass for them, too hard to match up a closer chamber and this though it can be done in Savage with the head spacing. Length is not the only issue, diameter stretch also. Not nearly as bad a an Enfield 303 but not great. They are intended to work in battle conditions, mud, dirt, fowled.

    If you do a minimum shoulder bump back you are ok.

    Full re-size and the base will crack in 5 rounds, maybe a couple more.

    You really do not want that as these are unsupported bolts and a gas release is a bad thing (even in new guns)

  11. #19
    Member "Straight"Shooter's Avatar
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    Late post on this thread, but I concur with most of the other posters. I have owned many M1917's in the last 40 years, some of which were in pristine, original condition. I have never had one that wouldn't close on a No-Go gauge - although none of them would close on a field gauge. I've never shot any of them enough to have a concern about brass life but it could certainly be an issue for frequent shooters who full-length resize.

  12. #20
    Senior Member RC20's Avatar
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    I would lie to address a few of these aspects. In all honesty its a mix of opinion that I think is correct.

    Pressure is not necessarily a good thing for a 1917. Its not a bad thing. The real issue is that its a full length stock and putting pressure was a way of dealing with barrel whip and the stock contact with that type of stock. So, its more a chicken and egg thing. Its so intermingled that I don't think it ever was "thought" about. Pressure was a way to help out the issue with the barrel contact.

    On the flips side, if you look at a K-31 (factual from a writer as well) it only has two points of contact in the receiver area of the stock and they will put metal shims in the front one to ensure the barrel is free floating. As the K-31 is a 20 design, I don't buy they suddenly changed from free to pressure barrels, but realized there was a better way to get off the shelf accuracy by doing what they did (and they made em in vastly smaller numbers, quality control and all that on the stock though the gun is a gem)

    What OFGuy reports is likely fully normal, free floated that barrel might well shoot ok. The barrel is going to whip, the pressure does not stop it, it snubs it and gives a more consistent whip that you can then tune with rounds to be reasonably accurate (spec) .

    One solution is to get a cut up 1917 stock (sportorized ) and free float it and see how that works. Bedding is going to help but that is not legal for the Mil Surplus matches . Pressure I believe also is not but that is seldom checked.

    And I do reload mine enough to know about case separating (any round) and the benefits of FL sizing but just bumping the shoulder back as little as you can and get good chambering (I prefer loose, I don't like tight)

    Neck size and you will have to FL anyway. I am into 10-15 rounds on brass and its doing fine. I also induction anneal to keep the necks from splitting.

    All the stuff that you don't know about until you hit the wall and start research and then its, oh yes, part of the way it works.

    Annealing keeps the necks and shoulder in the right hardness range (only if done right and its a whole subject unto itself and I will state one clear aspect, if it glows its wrong and that is not an opinion - well two - if it glows and you don't get that heat to the base its not right but it will not be optimal but ok for casual target or hunting - you never ever want to get it hat down past what you can see on a case like Lapua that does not polish the annealing discoloration it leaves off - a base that is softened will blow up. )

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