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Thread: Observations on a No.4 Mk1, a quiz?

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  1. #21
    Contributing Member Ridolpho's Avatar
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    The twist BreakyP indicates suggests this to be an early Savage barrel. I have one (6-groove) and haven't had it apart for a while but I don't believe there to be much in the way of markings on it. Not marked up like a Britishicon barrel, in any case. So, a salvaged Savage barrel used in FTR?

    Ridolpho

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    Advisory Panel Parashooter's Avatar
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    Most reports I've seen of six-groove barrels on non-Savage #4's turned out to be the result of mis-counting lands/grooves. Can we see a photo of the bore as a sanity check?

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    Member giove's Avatar
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    Ridolpho. Mine has a L.B. barrel with right twist; has a "6" stamped on the right bayonet lug and, on the Nock's form: CMK 4, A inside C, 58 and the later Canadianicon Proof. All normal.

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    Contributing Member Ridolpho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by giove View Post
    Ridolpho. Mine has a L.B. barrel with right twist; has a "6" stamped on the right bayonet lug and, on the Nock's form: CMK 4, A inside C, 58 and the later Canadianicon Proof. All normal.
    Yes, my '43 Long Branch has those same marks. BreakyP's rifle has "counterclockwise twist viewed from the chamber" which, I think, means it is a Savage barrel?

    Ridolpho

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    Member giove's Avatar
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    Yes, I think so too. But the Savage barrel should not have the flaming bomb?

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    Advisory Panel Brian Dick's Avatar
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    Canadianicon 6 groove barrels are well marked as Ridolpho says. 6 groove, LH twist is a Savage barrel. My Savage w/6 groove barrel isn't marked with the flaming bomb on the bayonet lug. Their 2 groove barrels normally have the U.S. Ordnance flaming bomb stamped on one of the bayonet lugs. Mine is on the left one. No other markings are present except for a single letter stamp, (inspector?), on top of the Knox and some have the letter C for Chicopee Falls stamped on the side of Knox. Savage sent tons of spares as well as complete rifles to Englandicon. Check the rear of the front sight base too as it'll be marked with the square "S" providing it's Savage manufacture.

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    Advisory Panel Surpmil's Avatar
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    What catches my eye, apart from the missing date and location of the FTR, is the slightly different machining of the left receiver wall where there is often a fairly distinctive flat slightly lower in profile than the main part of the left wall and with quite distinct concavities at each end. The area where a "US PROPERTY" mark is usually found on Savage rifles appears more uneven and convex than is usual.

    The absence of any markings on the butt socket is very strange for a UKicon made rifle, nor was removing them part of any SOP we have ever heard of. Therefore my guess would be a spare or late production "body" (receiver) which was completed as a rifle in the late 40s or early 50s and therefore lacks the butt socket markings or other evidences of previous use seen on WWII rifles.

    I agree with Roger's comment above that there are the signs of other electro-pencilled marks below the backsight, where FTR marks are often seen. So, a second FTR later in the 1950s? I have the remains of a 1957 Faz No.4 Mk2 which has an FTR mark in exactly the same manner as its original markings and apparently done at the same time. Why would a basically new rifle need an FTR? Was it a rifle that was somehow defective and was caught by post-assembly inspection and fed back into the production stream to be corrected?

    Is the serial number one that was assigned to the No4 Mk2 production range, or is this among the last MkI rifles produced?

    Also curious that if it went through a late FTR it was not converted to No4 Mk1/3 specs.
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    Rob, I've seen some later WW2 Faz rifles that appeared to have their original (manufacturer & date) markings in that (rear receiver sidewall below the folded rear sight) place. I think during WW2 the early Faz rifles were hand stamped on the left butt socket but at some point they switched to shallow engraving high on the receiver side. I've certainly owned a few late 43 onwards rifles so marked, suggesting it wasn't just post war rifles that were so marked. I guess the butt socket could have been scrubbed & the markings reapplied higher up, but they looked 'original' to me. No doubt a Faz production expert will put me right if I've assumed wrongly.

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    Thread Starter
    Thanks all for the comments and observations. It does confirm my decision to buy it as it appears to be a "***** duck" in many regards.


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