I was digging around in all of the books I have (so far) on the 1903 Springfield and I couldn't find any drawings of the scope mounts used on Army and Marine Corps 1903's.
Does anyone know if drawings showing the dimensions of these mounts exist? I also noticed from looking pictures it the rifles use modified handguards too.
I don't plan on building one, just curious about how 1903/A1 snipers are built or put together.
Thanks in advance,
Bill
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What dimensions are you trying to figure out? Like the dimenstions of the blocks or how they were installed on the rifle?
The handguards are all identical on real USMC 1903A1 Snipers. I took my real one over to the retired Professor of the Machine shop at Purdue University, and he is quite certain that the handguards were made on a horizontal Mill with a 3'' cutter.
He actually tried to make a few duplicates to see if he could duplicate the cut and they were identical in everyway.
Last edited by cplstevennorton; 01-13-2018 at 12:15 PM.
What dimensions are you trying to figure out? Like the dimensions of the blocks or how they were installed on the rifle?
That's incredibly beautiful! I was curious as to how big the mounts were LxWxH and how the front and rear compared to each other, also the center to center distance between the mounting screw holes. Having never seen one in real life its the only way I can get a good picture in my mind. Your picture is the first great picture I've seen of just the mount and the handguard all the others have been angled side views at best.
That looks so good! LOL I watched an AGI video on YouTube and the guy flubbed up the rear mount and then tried to play it off "You can just grind or file off the end of the ring base so it will fit" type stuff. He made a video drilling and taping 1903 having never done it before, "following the instructions" I'd of been ticked-off if it was my rifle.
His handguard mount looked nothing like this or even clean.
The scope mounting blocks for the 1903 sniper are the Lyman "O" and "E". Unertl and other companies made the same block but don't know what their part numbers are.
These blocks used to be available on he internet auctions and were reasonable priced until people building fake sniper rifles started buying them and ran the prices up.
These blocks are being manufactured by someone but don't know who are where they are available from.
hese blocks are being manufactured by someone but don't know who are where they are available from.
Herschel, I found them at Steve Earle Products and Buffalo Arms but neither provided drawing. I'm not interested in buying them I was interested in just the design and how everything works together. I was a little surprised when there was no information in any of the 1903 books on them. I will say though that the I like the way the color-cased block look that are sold by Steve Earle Products; reminds me of case colored lever action rifles.
Yeah as Herschel said, they are just O and E Unertl blocks. On the real rifles you see two different rear sight bases. Both appear to be made by Unertl as both are marked as such. But one has the WRA hole on both sides of the block for the thumb screw, like on the A5. It also has more square ends of the block. The other has more rounded ends and only has the WRA hole on the left side of the block. The more round with one hole is more common, but both are found on real rifles. I believe the more square might be earlier as it has holes on both sides, and that was an outdated style even in WWII. So I think the one hole was a revision, maybe wartime production. But I can't find any documentation on them. They are spaced 7.2 inches center to center of the blocks. Which yields 1/4 adjustments for each click on the 8X USMC Unertl 1 1/4 target scope.
But here are two side by side. So you can sort of get a look of them. These are the two variations the Marines used in Sniper Conversion. Both are NM rifles. But the top still maintains it's orignal Star Gauged barrel. The bottom is a NM that the barrel was replaced by the Marines with a standard barrel. The Marines did not buy star gauged barrels from SA to rebarrel the NM rifles. The Marines called these Rebarreled NM rifles, special targets. Both types of rifles were converted to snipers in WWII by the Marines.
Last edited by cplstevennorton; 01-13-2018 at 07:17 PM.
They are spaced 7.2 inches center to center of the blocks. Which yields 1/4 adjustments for each click on the 8X USMC Unertl 1 1/4 target scope.
Originally Posted by cplstevennorton
But the top still maintains it's original Star Gauged barrel.
cplstevennorton, This is fascinating! The scope is so long I was wondering how the geometry worked, the center to center you provided really helps me visualize this now. From looking at the pictures it looks as though the mounting block is not level with the rear mounting block, that the front mount is parallel to the barrel taper; our id this just because of the angle of the picture?
I'm still quite ignorant when it comes to the 1903, which of course is the reason I'm so curious. Good books on these things are so freeking expensive, so my 'vast knowledge' ;P has been limited to what I have learned from everyone here on the forum and the military manuals. I'm guessing when you write NM that means National Match (unlikely Narlly Marine)
When you say "original Star Gauged barrel" is that the little star on the crown? I've always wondered why that was there if it is.
Looking at your rifles is making me wish I had one, but like my father would say, "Wish in one hand and crap in the other and see which one gets full first", maybe someday., and if I do look for one the information you have given me will help me 'better' sort through all the fakes. Just with the little, I know from this exchange I can see I might have been taken for a sucker.
Thank you for taking the time to educate me on these rifles, your rifles are gorgeous.
cplstevennorton, This is fascinating! The scope is so long I was wondering how the geometry worked, the center to center you provided really helps me visualize this now. From looking at the pictures it looks as though the mounting block is not level with the rear mounting block, that the front mount is parallel to the barrel taper; our id this just because of the angle of the picture?
I'm not 100% sure what you mean, but the blocks are level on top of the barreled receiver. I'm guessing what you see is an illusion, just from being taken with a cell phone camera and just downloading and cropping the pic, and resizing it to fit here.
I'm still quite ignorant when it comes to the 1903, which of course is the reason I'm so curious. Good books on these things are so freeking expensive, so my 'vast knowledge' ;P has been limited to what I have learned from everyone here on the forum and the military manuals. I'm guessing when you write NM that means National Match (unlikely Narlly Marine)
Yes Sir, National Match.
When you say "original Star Gauged barrel" is that the little star on the crown? I've always wondered why that was there if it is.
YEah they had the star mark at the muzzle, and under the handguard, the star record number. Which is usually a letter followed by a 3 or 4 digit number. It just meant that SA used a special tool to make sure to check the barrel. Basically a quality control to make sure it was a good barrel for accuracy.
Looking at your rifles is making me wish I had one, but like my father would say, "Wish in one hand and crap in the other and see which one gets full first", maybe someday., and if I do look for one the information you have given me will help me 'better' sort through all the fakes. Just with the little, I know from this exchange I can see I might have been taken for a sucker.
Yeah you have to be extremely careful on these. I keep track of all known real rifles, and I know of around 20 now. And usually if one surfaces I hear it about it from someone. They are pretty rare and command huge premiums when they do sell.
Thank you for taking the time to educate me on these rifles, your rifles are gorgeous.
"The Book of the Springfield" by Captain E.C. Crossman is pretty much the definitive original M1903 "User's Guide", originally published in 1932 when the '03 Springfield was our "Queen of Battle" - before the M1 really got going (also before the 03A4 and USMC Sniper). It is usually available on Ebay in either used original or NRA leather bound reprint versions. Also, there is a post-war updated edition edited by Roy Dunlap, the gunsmith.
["Military and Sporting Rifle Shooting" by Crossman is really good, also - lots of technique and more how why, like position shooting, etc. Great companion book if you like to shoot the M1903.]
"Book of the Springfield" has chapters on iron sights, telescopic sights and their use, ammo and ballistics, really enough information to make you think those "old guys" knew a hell of a lot more about shooting a rifle precisely than we do! And as a group, they certainly did!
Prices run the auction gamut - min. $20 up to over a $140 for a signed copy. The NRA reprints are nice - and less a collectible.
If you own and are serious about shooting an M1903, you NEED this Book! CC
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Originally Posted by cplstevennorton
