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  1. #1
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    Saginaw M1 Carbine find

    I ran across a Saginaw M1icon Carbine yesterday at a local gunshop. The owner is offering it for sale for 2050. I am interested. I was not in a position to ask to disassemble the rifle. The stock has the crossed cannons and an SG , both on the right side. The stock is a highwood and has grime from the oiler slot along the stock to just behind the trigger area. ( This appears to be from carrying it as I have seen many photos of soldiers carry their carbines under the right arm with finger ready for firing. The owner says the gun was purchased by him as a bring back but with no authentication.) There are dings on the stock but not terrible. There is a gouge about an inch long on the pistol grip bottom. There is a sling that has the C tabs. The sling looks unused with no discoloration. It is a mustard color and thicker than the OD green slings I have seen in the past. The flip sight has SG on the side. The barrel has Saginaw and General Motors but no date. I did not have an opportunity to make a note of the serial number although the owner says it was manufactured in May of 1943. Saginaw is above the serial number. The metal is good. The flat bolt has a rough finish appearing to have some sort of thin discoloration on the top like it sat up without being cleaned for a long time. The push button safety and magazine release are not marked, if I remember correctly. These are the only things I noticed. I have only read about carbines and own an arsenal rebuilt Inland with a Standard Products potbelly stock so I don't really have experience with the original carbines. Please advise me as to what to look for when I go back tomorrow to try to further examine the gun. I also would appreciate some guidance concerning the selling price. Thank you for your consideration.
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    The best thing you can do is to take photos of this carbine including the serial number. If it was made in May 1943 it is one of the first 1521 made. So right now it's buyer beware. The photos should be close ups of the rear sight on both sides, the barrel band both sides, the stock if it's as early as stated then it should be an I cut oiler in the stock as well as a high wood. But before anyone here can comment on this carbine we do need to see it. Far to many fake parts are out there and again I say "Buyer beware".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce McAskill View Post
    The best thing you can do is to take photos of this carbine including the serial number. If it was made in May 1943 it is one of the first 1521 made. So right now it's buyer beware. The photos should be close ups of the rear sight on both sides, the barrel band both sides, the stock if it's as early as stated then it should be an I cut oiler in the stock as well as a high wood. But before anyone here can comment on this carbine we do need to see it. Far to many fake parts are out there and again I say "Buyer beware".
    Thank you for the reply . Great advice. I will go by the shop tomorrow and try to get some pics .

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    He should have no issues with you taking pictures and even breaking it down to check the internal parts. If he hesitates, maybe I would shy away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bentonville View Post
    The stock has the crossed cannons and an SG , both on the right side. The stock is a highwood
    Stock:
    Do you recall if the Oiler slot is Oval shaped like on your potbelly stock?
    When looking at the Boxed SG stamp..... Would the top of the SG letters be toward the muzzle with the rifle muzzle upright?
    Or were the SG letters upright with the rifle laying sideways?
    Look in the stocks left side slingwell for markings, common ones for SG or S'G' is RSG.
    Look for rebuild stamps on the stocks left side like: RIA over EB, AAM, .U. , STAN PRO INC, MR, etc.
    Look for a Circled P proof on the bottom of the pistol grip.
    Look in front of the grip for other P stamps = Proof/field/repair/ inspection stamps.

    Barrel Band:
    Do you recall what the Barrel Band looked like ? Was it narrow or like a Bayonet Band ?
    Look the current Barrel Band over for markings.
    Look for wear spots on the barrel forward of the Barrel Band (if it currently has a narrow band on it) for rub marks left from where a Bayonet Bands 3 inner pads will rub.
    Also look this area over for a Dis-coloration on the Barrel finish from once having a Bayo band on it.

    Front Sight:
    SG frt sights have a rounded groove running from the rear to the back of the sight blade.
    On S'G' frt sights Look for markings on both the top and outer sides.
    Look at the Frt sight pin to see if it's been pushed off and on.... like a mashed Frt sight pin and scars on the very front of the barrel.

    Rear Sight:
    Look the rear sight over for the marking on the sides of its base and look for markings on the leaf blades.
    Look for any moon crater type punch/stake marks on top of the Receivers Dovetails that the sight's base fits between. Big Crater punch marks tell you it had a rear adjustable sight on it at one time. Look closely, some fill these and finish over them.

    For this kind of money you gotta get him to pull the barreled receiver out of the stock. It's like popping the hood on a used car buy.
    Look at the sides of the receiver and barrel closely for Light Import Stamps.
    Look over the Gas Cylinder for any cracks.
    Does the Piston move freely?

    If need be, give him a Refundable Deposit 24hrs. Take all the pictures you can, be sure to get pictures of the sides of the trigger housing, bolt, op slide, Chamber etc. get them posted here and we'll do our part, with-in the time frame.
    Print this off for a carry in cheat sheet if it will help jog your memory.

    Camera
    Flashlight... Bore light
    Screwdriver
    Clean rag
    Magnifying loop or glasses.
    Note pad
    $ Deposit money

    Hell, I'm excited for you, wish I could go. You anywhere near mid Michigan?

    Be Waiting,
    Charlie-Painter777

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    Thank you for the replies. I did get to disassemble the rifle to a degree. the owner is very nice and accommodating. I wasn't comfortable taking apart the trigger group but I did the best that I knew how to do. I used my Iphone and I don't know if the pictures offer clear enough details but it's all I have. Now I have to learn how to put pictures on this forum. I will read some instructions and try to get this done. Thanks again for the help.

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    Well.....Frustration sets in....as usual with this sort of thing. I have spent too long trying to get photos to drag and upload into Photobucket. I created the account, etc. Tried to drag from my Icloud photo album and nothing happens. I have read everything I could find to read while weeding through all the adds. I would be very happy to send photos by email to anyone interested. If you have a way to help me upload, I would be happy to but right now, i feel it's time to toss this computer out the second story window.
    Thanks for your attempt to help me.

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    You can just load the photos directly to this site without much problem. It's not much harder than posting as you've already done. Click on the "Go Advanced" tab when making your reply. From there you go to manage attachments, choose the photos from your computer, and upload them. Preview your post, and when it looks good, submit it. Or, there's a "write-up" in the sticky threads that tells all about how to do it. - Bob

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    So do I just go here on Reply and down to manage attachments. When I do that, go to my photos on my computer and click and drag, I get a large image and nothing on the bottom of the manage attachments page. If there is something I am missing please advise. Thank you for your patience.

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    After you click on "manage attachments," look in the upper RH corner of the new window for a tab that says "add files" - then click on "select files" - this will allow you to browse your computer for files to upload. When you get your files selected, they will appear in a list, where you then can click "upload" to see them in your reply. Click "preview" to see how they will appear along with your text. When it looks good, then click on "submit." - Bob

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