+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 18

Thread: Fake Rockola cartouche?

Click here to increase the font size Click here to reduce the font size
  1. #1
    Legacy Member AD-4NA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Last On
    03-20-2024 @ 03:08 PM
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    161
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    08:44 AM

    Fake Rockola cartouche?

    Saw a Rockola carbine with final acceptance stamps that piqued my attention the other day.

    No only was the ordnance wheel and "RMC" stamped suspiciously evenly, deeply, freshly and sized too large, but it was stamped so deeply that it showed that the crossed cannons and letters used were all on one giant stamp, many inches wide. I can't remember whether there was even anything in the sling well.

    I am pretty sure this was never originally the case right?

    There were a number of other things wrong with the carbine in addition that pointed to someone trying and failing to "improve" the carbine or assemble an obvious fake, such as an early sight but stake marks consistent with an adjustable sight on the dovetail, barrel band, and more, but the stock stuck out at me the most.

    And no, I can't get pictures. It's at a touchy store and I don't want to tick them off about the fakery.
    Information
    Warning: This is a relatively older thread
    This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

  2. # ADS
    Friends and Sponsors
    Join Date
    October 2006
    Location
    Milsurps.Com
    Posts
    All Threads
    A Collector's View - The SMLE Short Magazine Lee Enfield 1903-1989. It is 300 8.5x11 inch pages with 1,000+ photo’s, most in color, and each book is serial-numbered.  Covering the SMLE from 1903 to the end of production in India in 1989 it looks at how each model differs and manufacturer differences from a collecting point of view along with the major accessories that could be attached to the rifle. For the record this is not a moneymaker, I hope just to break even, eventually, at $80/book plus shipping.  In the USA shipping is $5.00 for media mail.  I will accept PayPal, Zelle, MO and good old checks (and cash if you want to stop by for a tour!).  CLICK BANNER to send me a PM for International pricing and shipping. Manufacturer of various vintage rifle scopes for the 1903 such as our M73G4 (reproduction of the Weaver 330C) and Malcolm 8X Gen II (Unertl reproduction). Several of our scopes are used in the CMP Vintage Sniper competition on top of 1903 rifles. Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Specializing in premium ammunition and reloading components. Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

  3. #2
    Legacy Member Snowman1510's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Last On
    06-27-2022 @ 10:29 PM
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    272
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    11:44 AM
    If the store is touchy about photos and that kind of stuff, that would send up a red flag to me.

  4. Avoid Ads - Become a Contributing Member - Click HERE
  5. #3
    Advisory Panel browningautorifle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Last On
    Today @ 11:07 AM
    Location
    Victoria BC
    Posts
    29,838
    Real Name
    Jim
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    09:44 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by AD-4NA View Post
    I don't want to tick them off
    I wouldn't even worry about it. That sort of info is something you keep in your head unless they ask you. I was asked not long ago about a #4 Lee Enfield and gave him the whole rundown on it. A parts gun... If they need to know then you can let them know.
    Regards, Jim

  6. Thank You to browningautorifle For This Useful Post:


  7. #4
    Legacy Member Sunray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last On
    03-29-2021 @ 03:01 PM
    Location
    London, Ontario
    Posts
    1,053
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    12:44 PM
    Touchy stores don't stay in business for long. Worst thing they can do is throw you out.
    Mind you, 'one giant stamp' wouldn't be cost effective to have made. And lots of well known refinishing shops think nothing of charging for whatever cartouche stamps you want.
    Spelling and Grammar count!

  8. #5
    Advisory Panel
    painter777's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last On
    @
    Location
    Central Michigan
    Posts
    5,312
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    12:44 PM

    Fake and Real

    Quote Originally Posted by AD-4NA View Post
    Fake Rockola cartouche?
    Saw a Rockola carbine with final acceptance stamps that piqued my attention
    I'm just trying to cover the stock stamps. Lord knows there are more than enough carbines out there with attempts at making them look original.
    You'll see Examples of these Faked Stamps most every day in auctions. Here is one completed auction of a NEW MADE stock, with long barrel channel and REPRODUCED STAMPS (I Believe a Dupage stock). It sold for $290.00. The seller revealed it was Reproduction Stamped.
    Here is the Completed Auction link : WW2 M1 Carbine Stock Handguard ROCKOLA | eBay

    Sellers description below:

    Up for bidding is a beautiful M1 carbine stock and hand guard made of walnut. The stock and hand guard are in excellent restored condition with no cracks or splits. The main body of the stock is a reproduction, the hand guard, and metal are 70+ years old made during WW2. This stock has been test-fitted with my own carbine, and fits and functions fine,.... This stock comes with a WW2 hand guard, WW2 Rockola butt plate, WW2 recoil plate stamped "Rockola" on top, and WW2 band spring. All photos are of the actual stock you will be getting. Please examine all photos carefully for a complete description. If you have any questions please ask before bidding. This stock would be great as a wall hanger, or as a shooter while you wait for that WW2 complete original...
    INCLUDED
    WW2 Recoil plate stamped ROCK-OLA
    WW2 Early Hand guard stamped "RMC"
    Walnut reproduction stock
    WW2 butt plate manufactured by Rockola
    Cartouche re-stamping
    "P" on pistol grip



    Reproduction / Fake Stamp


    Long Barrel Channel on a I Cut Hi-Wood Stock..... Not in WWII




    Quote Originally Posted by AD-4NA View Post
    it showed that the crossed cannons and letters used were all on one giant stamp
    The REAL Rock Ola with Crossed Cannons Stamp were a one piece stamp and often left a outer line impression when stamped. Most I've seen often (when it occurs) leave that impression at the bottom, below the Cannons. Example below.....

    FWIW,
    Charlie-Painter777


  9. The Following 7 Members Say Thank You to painter777 For This Useful Post:


  10. #6
    Legacy Member AD-4NA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Last On
    03-20-2024 @ 03:08 PM
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    161
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    08:44 AM
    Thread Starter
    Hmm, now I might need to take another look at that poor chewed up old thing.


    Yes, I learned to keep silent while inside a shop a long time ago...

    On that front, touchy stores do sometimes stay in business when they are big box retailers, sometimes with grumpy and occasionally inept old men in charge!

  11. #7
    Advisory Panel
    USGI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last On
    @
    Location
    Oregon, USA
    Age
    78
    Posts
    2,187
    Real Name
    Bob
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    09:44 AM
    I'm not seeing the "long" barrel channel. The nose of the stock is "funny" shaped, though. - Bob

  12. #8
    Advisory Panel
    painter777's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last On
    @
    Location
    Central Michigan
    Posts
    5,312
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    12:44 PM
    Hey Bob,
    Your right...
    I believe looking at that Bulbous nose threw me off. Should be more wood behind where the band spring goes in.

    Like this Winchester:


  13. Thank You to painter777 For This Useful Post:


  14. #9
    Advisory Panel
    USGI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last On
    @
    Location
    Oregon, USA
    Age
    78
    Posts
    2,187
    Real Name
    Bob
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    09:44 AM
    Charlie, I happen to own (it's a long story) a stock very similar to your eBay example above. It's got the same blunt nose, but it's an oval cut rather than an "I." Someone put Underwood acceptance markings on it and stamped MU in the slingwell. Another thing it has is the bomb marking behind the recoil plate, same as on this picture of the eBay stock. What can you tell me about that marking? I don't recall seeing it before. I thought maybe it was supposed to be an Underwood "thing" and was going to look it up at some point, but never have. Know anything about those? Thanks! - Bob

  15. #10
    Advisory Panel
    painter777's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last On
    @
    Location
    Central Michigan
    Posts
    5,312
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    12:44 PM
    Bob,
    Well you got me doing your homework again for you, since you know I'm laid up with the shoulder problems.......... Taking advantage of the crippled guy.... Geeezzzee.

    Your's looks like those small Repro Bomb Shell stamps.
    The common one I've see have no flame licks and are often on stocks that have the boxed RIA over EB stamped stocks, So is it something RIA added? I'm not sure, because we've run across stocks that had no acceptance stamps/CC's but had the bomb by the recoil plate, Maybe replacement stocks when accepted were stamped with it?
    I know Frank 'The Foot' Derrico has run across quite a few also.



    http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=10143

    https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=22377

  16. The Following 2 Members Say Thank You to painter777 For This Useful Post:


+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Fake Garand Cartouche?
    By scubatke in forum M1 Garand/M14/M1A Rifles
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 02-08-2014, 09:16 AM
  2. Fake Cartouche?
    By scubatke in forum M1/M2 Carbine
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 01-22-2014, 11:27 PM
  3. G/K43 Real, partial fake, complete fake
    By ChauffeurJoe in forum Appraisals, Fakery, Dispute Resolution & Mediation Forum
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 01-20-2013, 09:27 PM
  4. How do these equate into the fake vs. real cartouche problem?
    By GUTS in forum M1 Garand/M14/M1A Rifles
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03-09-2010, 05:55 PM
  5. Fake cartouche...to me anyway..at Cabelas
    By Garandrew in forum Military Shotguns
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 04-20-2009, 10:21 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Raven Rocks