Troublesome Long Branch

[Bindi2]

No I don't know what the L11 is.
There appears to be other numbers under the stamped one and a cypher of some sort.
Show a photo of the bolt handle side of the rifle and the left side of the action please

[CINDERS]

If push comes to shove and the SMK's dont work you have 2 options try a sample pack from The Bullet Factory 174gn .311" FBHP I think they do them if not just buy 100 they are fairly cheap or try the Hornady 150gn Spire point they are .312" work well to 400M I crimped into the cannular leaving @1/16" of it showing with that load any further and they are getting low on the gas you could up the load by a couple of grains but here's the 303 for 150 to 180gn from Nick Harvey's 9th Ed. Remember start low & work up no liability accepted using these loads.

Nick Harvey is an Australian gun writer that has been doing it for I'd say the last 50 years in Australia his book apart from reloads has a pretty good spread on reloading principles and how to do's its worth getting a copy.

[nijalninja]

Bindi I'll see if I can get some this arvo.

Cheers Cinders, this fellow would certainly know what he is talking about. Then again I reckon you do too haha.

[Patrick Chadwick]

This seems to be a case of, literally, "shoot the crap out of it".

The bore appears to have sharp-edged pitting. A Garand or .30M1 carbine demonstrates very nicely that a clean hole that is very short, compared with the bearing length of the bullet, will not harm accuracy. But rough edges on the pits tear up the surface of the bullet, thus leaving the residue that you observed. And, as you shoot more and more, the pits become clogged up and the edges of the pits are smoothed off - just a smidgeon - and thus the performance improves a wee bit. You are indeed, "shooting the crap out of it".

However, to save yourself time and the expenditure of hundreds of rounds, may I very seriously suggest that you apply "fire lapping". (described some time ago, please search it out yourself). This will take the sharp edges off the pits and can improve performance to the point where you have an acceptably shooting rifle again -and saved a barrel that looked like it was destined for the scrapyard.

But until you have done that, all musing about loads, bullets, draws etc etc is (guys, please excuse me) an academic waste of time.

Just my 10c-worth of course, but i've Been There and Done That on a Winchester LAR, a Brazil Mauser and an Artillery Luger.

It works - do it.

[nijalninja]

Patrick, if it saves me time then that is great. Shooting the crap out of it was going to be the plan anyway haha. I wouldn't have thrown the barrel away anyway since it still matched the rifle.

[CINDERS]

Fire lapings great if you want to cause increased barrel wear, from my experience with my T that would not group because as I discovered by a process of elimination the collar was too long and the draws were knackered so without inspecting it I could have left the two be and been happy with a 20MOA rifle at 100yds. One has to start with the basics having a load that shoots well in a Ross rifle may not equate to an accurate load in this rifle, if I were to suggest anything it would be a good stiff nylon brush, Boretec carbon remover with Iosso paste & scrub the crap outa that barrel.

Cut a strip of a chux super wipe 1/4" wide x @2" long wrap it around the brush smear on the Iosso having already wet the bore with carbon remover, wet the Iosso/Chux with BoreTec Carbon remover using a bore guide scrub the heck out of the bore being sure when not to exit the muzzle repeat as many times as you think patching out then swab out with metho and repeat till its not black. You can then use JB bore paste the red one is the finest one and not to savage on the bore.
You can go the fire lapping way but I akin that to using a dremel up the bore as it just really cuts the crap out of them there is one called Snipex a friend tried it on his 257 Roberts Improved what a whole lot of cods wallop that was dip the bullet in the paste fire it then clean & repeat until the whole tubes gone end result friggin great waste of time & money.
Put it this way your car is running rough so you pull into a servo don't worry about finding out why its running rough just fill her up with methanol and keep driving the methanol will clean out your fuel system as well as evrything else engine wise you'll get there quicker but the wear and tear on the engine will be pretty bad.
I always look at the easiest avenue takes 5 minutes to strip the fore woods off a No.4 if alls well then you've wasted 10 minutes of your time, scrub the bore, try those Ross loads again if they still do not work then try reloads if that fails get the fire lapping gear and wear out some of those pits if that fails get a new barrel the repo's are chambered timed requiring a bit of gunsmithing their reasonably priced as well. tbonesmith has them...I'll mark this thread to keep in touch with the progress......

[Daan Kemp]

Getting the bore bright ...

A fellow shooter had a Long Branch with a dull barrel, never could get it to shine no matter what he did. We had access to almost unlimited ammo, so he got together the guys on the range to shoot his LB. Literally shot the carp out of it, must have been at least 150 rounds in short order. You literally could hear the oil in the wood boiling [you know that crackling sound boiling oil makes?] it was that hot, hot oil all over the wood; couldn't hold on to the wood fore end, it was too hot.

Guess what - absolutely brilliantly shiny barrel! Now I'm not saying that is the solution to all dull barrels, but it certainly solved his. He never had a problem getting the barrel bright afterwards.

[Patrick Chadwick]

Cinders, I agree that the incautious use of fire-lapping is likely to produce a small-bore shotgun barrel. But it is not the same as using a rotating tool. Rotating tools produce rings that irretrievably ruin the barrel, The paste I use was made by Neco (not sure if they still exist), is extremely fine, and used in almost microscopic quantities, being pressed into the surface of lead bullets, not applied as an abrasive smear. So "dip the bullet in the paste" is indeed wrong, as this results in an excessive amount of paste that piles up in front of the bullet as it passes down the bore and causes real wear.

And the aim is not to wear out the pits - impossible, since they may be deeper than the rifling - but just to take off the sharp edges. The amount removed is in the micron range.
It is a touchy job, and only to be used for really desperate cases, the slower (but safer) alternative being VFG bore-cleaning paste, which feels like an old-fashioned gritty toothpaste. I imagine that JB bore paste is similar.

Whatever the method, the longer the bearing surface on the bullets, the better they will be able to ride over the pits. And, incidentally, provide some compensation for a worn throat. So forget any kind of boat-tail and use bullets such as the Hornady 3130 (if you can get them) which I have found to provide instant improvement in all the .303/7.65 caliber rifles I have had: Argentine Mauser, Lee Enfields, and Mosin Nagants.

[CINDERS]

Hey Patrick I just used the Dremel as an outlandish example, I understand what your saying Patrick But I have seen the results of fire lapping I just try the cautious approach first before getting things out like JB's bore paste of which there are 2 types the red one is super fine the other is a greeny colour and is a fair bit coarser, everybody knows about Iosso paste which I think is made out of either pumice or shells anyway alls good we will see where this goes with Nijals rifle.

[nijalninja]

OH geez there is a lot to read here.

Patrick, I have looked at fire lapping and must say it sounds interesting but effective. After some consideration on it I do not think I will use it with this particular rifle. However, I have some older barrels on other rifles that are even worse in the area of pitting and almost useless to me, so I may as well try it with them when I get the chance. Thanks for bringing that technique to my attention.

Cinders, I will very thoroughly inspect the fore-end and all that whenever I get the chance. I planned to do it this arvo but ended up hauling in a massive roo for dog meat. In regards to the load I will leave a comment at the end about what I plan to do. Also I've never heard of boretec stuff or Iosso paste. It sounds pretty brutal but I suppose that is only if you you want it to be, from what I have looked at you can be more tame with it if need be.

Daan, that is kind of what I am looking at doing. If you look at the bottom of this comment I'll explain. You'd think the wood would warp after that kind of abuse.

Patrick again, I will be chasing down long bullets for this rifle.

ALRIGHT so my plan: With what I have heard so far and the state of this rifle, and my current state of marksmanship I believe it best to use this rifle for extensive handload testing. Why? Well some have said to just shoot the thing into the ground, which sounds great, and others have said I should take the time to develop a good and safe handload to gauge the damage in the barrel better. Now couple that with the fact that I am an average shot and I reckon by the time I have tried heaps of different loads the barrel will have cleaned up considerably and my shooting abilities with the rifle may have improved too. If the barrel still does not improve after this time then consider it an experiment that I saved someone else doing. If it comes to that I will consider fire-lapping and other more abrasive techniques, or I may just leave the rifle in its state and look for a nice one.

Lots of typing here, but does that sound reasonable?