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  1. #1
    Really Senior Member Joe W's Avatar
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    Question for Camp Perry NM shooter late 50's early 60's

    About 3 years ago I purchased a NM rifle on G.B. It looked ok and did have a SRS hit as having been in storage at Camp Perry in 1982. I latter found out that the rifle was a Army Team rifle obtained from the Army by CMPicon in 2007. I wrote to CMP for verification and received a letter indicating the rifle had been sold by CMP in July 2007 as a "M1icon Garand N.M. Type 2 Excellent". I then researched the SRS hit and found from a letter dated 27 Oct 1982 from the DCM to Mr. F.P. Mallory of SRS which stated that the DCM included with the letter a "list of serial numbers of NM M1 rifles on loan to organizations supported by the DCM or in storage at the National Match Support Detachment (NMSD) at Camp Perry Ohio."
    There were 59 rifles on this list that were identified as being in storage at the NMSD, Camp Perry on 10/27/82 including the rifle I own.
    My question is, when did the M1 rifle cease to be used at the National Matches and no longer issued as "loaners" to competitors ?
    I am trying to figure out about when this rifle may have went from storage at Camp Perry back to the Army, maybe the AMU. And just why the AMU would have had this weapon until 2007, when it was transferred to the CMP for sale.
    Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks

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    Senior Member no4mk1t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe W View Post
    About 3 years ago I purchased a NM rifle on G.B. It looked ok and did have a SRS hit as having been in storage at Camp Perry in 1982. I latter found out that the rifle was a Army Team rifle obtained from the Army by CMPicon in 2007. I wrote to CMP for verification and received a letter indicating the rifle had been sold by CMP in July 2007 as a "M1 Garand N.M. Type 2 Excellent". I then researched the SRS hit and found from a letter dated 27 Oct 1982 from the DCM to Mr. F.P. Mallory of SRS which stated that the DCM included with the letter a "list of serial numbers of NM M1 rifles on loan to organizations supported by the DCM or in storage at the National Match Support Detachment (NMSD) at Camp Perry Ohio."
    There were 59 rifles on this list that were identified as being in storage at the NMSD, Camp Perry on 10/27/82 including the rifle I own.
    My question is, when did the M1 rifle cease to be used at the National Matches and no longer issued as "loaners" to competitors ?
    I am trying to figure out about when this rifle may have went from storage at Camp Perry back to the Army, maybe the AMU. And just why the AMU would have had this weapon until 2007, when it was transferred to the CMP for sale.
    Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks
    The M1, M14icon, and M16 type rifles are all still authorized for use in the National Matches. Outside of the Games Matches, hardly anyone still shoots the 30 cal rifles because the AR's have the advantage.

    Back when I was on the state rifle team, the club I was in was "loaned" M1 NM rifles from the DCM for marksmanship training and competition. These rifles were available to club members for use in clinics and matches, in some instances together with issue USGI ammo.
    If you were a member of the state shooting association, and a firing member of the state team, you could request a M14NM. My state had 13 M14NM rifles and I had one issued to me from 1986 until the early 2000's when the insurance and storage requirements became burdensome and they were all returned.

    I am guessing that your M1 was a "loaner" for use during the National Matches. I am pretty sure that this practice continued until the early to mid 90's. Probably ending for sure when the DCM was abolished in 1996. Up until that time, ammo was issued on the line and you had to call out "7.62mm, or Cal. 30" to the GI on the ammo wagon. If you said "308 or 30-06", you'd get that Germanicon Shepard look as they were not shooters and just read what it said on the box.

    From the first year I went to Perry in 1986, all the military teams were shooting the M14, and continued to shoot it until transitioning to the M16 in the mid to late 90's. If there were any M1's on the AMU's books, they were for training in the type as AMU members would serve as coaches during Small Arms Firing School at Perry and would need to be familiar with the M1 if any of the students had one.

    You've got a documented piece of Camp Perry history. Don't alter the rifle and keep all the paperwork, when the time comes to sell it, it should bring a premium. M1 NM rifles are easy to fake. Having documentation that yours is genuine, is gold.

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    Really Senior Member Joe W's Avatar
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    Thread Starter
    no4mk1t - Thanks for your helpful reply. Do you know if the AMU members still serve as coaches during Small Arms Firing School at Perry ? I am thinking that if they do, some or all, of the 59 rifles listed as being stored at the NMSD in 1982 may have been turned over to the AMU by the DCM in 1996. That could explain how my rifle was still in the hands of the AMU as late as 2007 when transferred to the CMPicon.

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    Senior Member no4mk1t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe W View Post
    no4mk1t - Thanks for your helpful reply. Do you know if the AMU members still serve as coaches during Small Arms Firing School at Perry ? I am thinking that if they do, some or all, of the 59 rifles listed as being stored at the NMSD in 1982 may have been turned over to the AMU by the DCM in 1996. That could explain how my rifle was still in the hands of the AMU as late as 2007 when transferred to the CMPicon.
    My last year on the rifle team was 2000. At that time, all of the military teams provided coaches for SAFS.
    You forget to take into account gov't inefficiency. The 59 rifles could have been forgotten and not been rediscovered until an inventory or audit brought them to light. Or they could have been retained for vintage rifle familiarity training for AMU armorers at Perry who would need to know how to repair them. Who really knows.
    You are the steward of a piece of history. Keep it safe until you turn it over to the next steward.

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    Really Senior Member Joe W's Avatar
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    The rifle I have has a 1951 NM marked barrel containing the 1960 code (diamond with flattened points). It has a few latter upgrades such as a 77 SA NM marked op rod and hooded rear sight aperture. Possibly in 2001 when the "issue grade" M1icon rifles were returned to CMPicon the AMU took the NM rifles & pistols, then, in 2007, the AMU transferred the NM rifles to CMP. I wonder if CMP has received any NM pistols from the AMU along with those they will be releasing for sale in the future. Guess I will never know the whole story but at least I have a better idea. Thanks for the help.


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