+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: USMC rifle with UNit marking

Click here to increase the font size Click here to reduce the font size
  1. #1
    Really Senior Member Frederick303's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Last On
    08-14-2018 @ 10:31 PM
    Location
    Pipersville PA US
    Posts
    671
    Local Date
    08-16-2018
    Local Time
    11:15 PM

    USMC rifle with UNit marking

    Gents, I have what appears to be a USMC M1903, at least it has many of the features one would expect with one (light colored park, marked bolt, hatcher hole, rock island gun, 12-29 barrel date).

    I got it many years ago and in research at the time supposedlyit to be a SEABEE marked gun. The marking consists of stamped on the buttstock that shows when the action is facing out on a gun rack. The marking is 2B 116 , which I took to be 2nd Battalion, 116 rifle. I forget where I read such marked rifles were Seabee related, and cannot find any reference to it on-line now. It came back as one of the Greek return rifles, if that helps.

    Now I am wondering if this is a correct interpretation. I just looked up the 2nd construction battalion and found the following:

    "The Second Battalion was divided into the Fourth and Fifth detachment at time of commissioning In April. 1942, at Camp Allen. The Fourth detachment embarked at Norfolk and arrived at Upolu in the Samoan Islands, in May of 1942. One unit of the detachment was assigned to the Fifth Marine Defense Battalion on Funafuti, in April


    1943. In July, the rest of the Fourth detachment moved to Tutuila, also in the Samoan group. The unit that was sent to Funafuti rejoined the Fourth detachment in January 1944. The second hail of the Second Battalion, known as the Fifth detachment embarked from San Diego, Calif. and arrived at Tutuila late in April. 1942. Two months later, this unit moved to Wallis Island, where they remained for a year, then rejoined the rest of the Second Battalion at Tutuila. The entire Battalion, with the exception of 116 men, arrived at Camp Parks on March 7, 1944. The rear echelon arrived in the States one month later for decommissioning."

    So have any of the M1903 experts ever seen this kind of marking before and if so would be it be reasonable to believe it is a Seabee marked gun? I know it was not the pattern of the Navy and regular USMC to unit mark rifles, or so I have been lead to believe.

    Thanks to anyone who might know. No offense will be taken if the marking has other meaning. Trying to put everything down so when my stuff is sold off the family will know what they have.

  2. Thank You to Frederick303 For This Useful Post:


  3. # ADS
    Friends and Sponsors
    Join Date
    October 2006
    Location
    Milsurps.Com
    Posts
    All Threads
    No Drill-Tap scope mounts for Mosin Nagant, Mauser K98K, Yugo M48, Swedish M96 and M38, Swiss K31, K11, 1911 and more! Bringing mil-surplus rifles to modern standard without damaging historical values! LIMITED TIME OFFER FROM THE AMERICAN GUNSMITHING INSTITUTE: Get Immediate Online Access To AGI's NEW Armorer's Course for Glock Pistols, Covering Every Generation of Glocks, Including the Latest Model 42/43 and Double Stack Pistols for ONLY $7.00! Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Chuck in Denver ... Buy-Sell-Trade .. Guns, Cars Motorcycles Service Publications - Collectors books that earn their place in your library! Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Canadian Import and Export Services (Click banner ad for more information) Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

  4. #2
    Really Senior Member RCS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last On
    Today @ 10:25 AM
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,822
    Local Date
    08-16-2018
    Local Time
    10:15 PM

    USMC Model 1903 rifle

    It would help a lot if you could post photos of your rifle. It would really help to identity all
    the USMC features plus the unit marking on the stock.

    It would seem to me that naval 1903 stocks have more unit/ship markings than US Army stocks

    I have an early single bolt Rock Island stock with the number 4-99 stamp on the butt, I really have no idea why the location of the stamp or what it means -but would like to find out

  5. Avoid Ads - Become a Contributing Member - Click HERE
  6. #3
    Really Senior Member cplstevennorton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 08:24 PM
    Location
    Van Wert, OH
    Age
    38
    Posts
    200
    Local Date
    08-16-2018
    Local Time
    11:15 PM
    We honestly don't know what they mean. We have never found anything on in the Archives, but my opinion is, it was probably something WWII or post WWII. Just because we never have found a mention of it, and our records are pretty good till 1943. And I've seen similar stamps on 03A3 and Garandicon stocks.

    I have a documented Marine 1903 to 1938 that has never every trait of a USMC rebuild, with a 9/42 Sedgley barrel. It also has a large CB 9 on the side of the buttstock like how you describe.

    The rifle was for sure sold by the Navy Yard in Philly in the 1950's. To me the CD 9 is probably a naval marking either on a recycled stock, or applied to the rifle post Marine service. I do not believe the CD 9 was applied by the Marines.

    My honest opinion it is probably Navy marking and WWII or later. But all that is a guess. I've documented a ton of these, and no rhyme or reason, or usually not even distinct patterns. Many don't seem to match up to anything. Some could be ship's names, but that is just a guess.

    I think it's all speculation right now sorry to say.

  7. #4
    Really Senior Member RCS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last On
    Today @ 10:25 AM
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,822
    Local Date
    08-16-2018
    Local Time
    10:15 PM

    L.T.T. marking

    There is faint L.T.T. stamp near the Rock Island cartouche, not certain of the time period this stamp was used ? some think pre WW2

  8. #5
    Really Senior Member Frederick303's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Last On
    08-14-2018 @ 10:31 PM
    Location
    Pipersville PA US
    Posts
    671
    Local Date
    08-16-2018
    Local Time
    11:15 PM
    Thread Starter
    The marking I am referring to is on the rear of the stock, so if the gun was in the rack with the action facing up you could rear the marking. not on underside where the swivels lie.

    What a pain, when I got it I posted it, most likely on the Culvericon site (that is my recollection of where I used to go for such content) and that was when I was told it was likely Seabee. Made me fond of it as my grandfather was in the 76th Seabee battalion. Now I can find nothing on line as to such markings so I have doubts. Of course I did not write down everything I was told back then, and now it is lost.

    Met Col. Culver at Camp Perry when he had the Farr rifle on display for the 100th (2006 or 2007) it seems to long ago now, how time flies and how rapidly we are losing folks.

  9. #6
    Member eb2151's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last On
    Today @ 08:24 PM
    Location
    NEPA
    Posts
    55
    Local Date
    08-16-2018
    Local Time
    11:15 PM
    "The marking is 2B 116"
    I am led to believe the markings on the stock ,
    without actually seeing them mean:
    2nd Cav ,Troop B,Trooper rifle #116.
    Ed Byrns

  10. #7
    Senior Member RC20's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Last On
    Today @ 08:13 PM
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    194
    Local Date
    08-16-2018
    Local Time
    07:15 PM
    And while not out of the possibility it could have been a Sea B, , I believe the Sea Bs were issued 1917s.

  11. #8
    Really Senior Member Frederick303's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Last On
    08-14-2018 @ 10:31 PM
    Location
    Pipersville PA US
    Posts
    671
    Local Date
    08-16-2018
    Local Time
    11:15 PM
    Thread Starter
    eb2151

    thank you for that information. I assume 2 cavalry refers to a regiment. looking up the history I find:

    In the years prior to American entry into the Second World War, the 2nd Cavalry was garrisoned at Fort Riley, Kansas from 1919-1939. They performed their peacetime duties as a school training regiment for the Cavalry School. Here at Fort Riley, the regiment was equipped with its first armored cars in 1936, the year they celebrated their centennial, marking 100 years of proud national service. In 1938, the 1st Armored Regiment and the 13th Armored Regiment joined the 2nd Cavalry for maneuvers at Fort Riley, to practice and develop combined arms tactics. These maneuvers combined infantry, cavalry, armored, artillery, and aviation units.[5]

    Seems consistent with the unit history, training units have folks transferred in and out on a regular basis and might mark arms as such.


    That said it has so many features of a Marine rifle, from the Hatcher hole, light park color and the 365xxx rock island action body mated with a 12-29 SA barrel, blued WWII bolt marked on the body, not the handle like most Greek rifles. If so the rifle is a mix master, which is not surprising given its source (Greek return). I guess I can more or less put it down as not being much of anything but representative example.

    RC20

    Yes a fair number of the early Seabee battalions trained with M1917 rifles, but the M1903 took over in the 1943 time frame. There is a site devoted to that and most of the pacific units have M1903s, with Thompsons. Later battalions show issue of M1icon carbines as well. My grandfathers unit had M1903 rifles (76th Seabee)

  12. #9
    Member eb2151's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last On
    Today @ 08:24 PM
    Location
    NEPA
    Posts
    55
    Local Date
    08-16-2018
    Local Time
    11:15 PM

    2nd Cav.

    The markings on the stock could be the 2nd Cav.Div. After consolidation in 1920,
    Cav. units were amalgamated into larger units.
    I would have to see the stock to be sure.
    Markings were still applied after the consolidation and could represent 2nd Cav. Division.
    Ed Byrns

  13. #10
    Really Senior Member Frederick303's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Last On
    08-14-2018 @ 10:31 PM
    Location
    Pipersville PA US
    Posts
    671
    Local Date
    08-16-2018
    Local Time
    11:15 PM
    Thread Starter
    I will have the wife take a picture and send it to you.


+ Reply to Thread

Similar Threads

  1. Another MkII*** Unit marking question...
    By Gpcooke in forum The Ross Rifle Knowledge Library Collectors Forum
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 05-23-2017, 11:23 AM
  2. Another MkII*** Unit marking question...
    By Gpcooke in forum The Ross Rifle Knowledge Library Collectors Forum
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-20-2017, 07:01 PM
  3. Marking Disk Unit
    By LTCJohnston in forum Pattern 1913/1914 and M1917 Rifles
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-12-2015, 01:36 PM
  4. Unit marking on stock?
    By coneten in forum Krag Rifles
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 02-23-2011, 12:44 PM
  5. Unknown Unit/ Stock Marking on P14
    By thommygun in forum Pattern 1913/1914 and M1917 Rifles
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 08-15-2009, 05:42 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts