+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: POA / POI?

Click here to increase the font size Click here to reduce the font size
  1. #1
    Legacy Member amadeus76's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Last On
    01-11-2024 @ 06:51 PM
    Location
    Harker Heights, tx
    Posts
    305
    Local Date
    03-29-2024
    Local Time
    09:57 AM

    POA / POI?

    When zeroing a Swissicon 1911 long rifle is the point of aim centermass or 6 o’clock hold?
    Information
    Warning: This is a relatively older thread
    This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

  2. # ADS
    Friends and Sponsors
    Join Date
    October 2006
    Location
    Milsurps.Com
    Posts
    All Threads
    A Collector's View - The SMLE Short Magazine Lee Enfield 1903-1989. It is 300 8.5x11 inch pages with 1,000+ photo’s, most in color, and each book is serial-numbered.  Covering the SMLE from 1903 to the end of production in India in 1989 it looks at how each model differs and manufacturer differences from a collecting point of view along with the major accessories that could be attached to the rifle. For the record this is not a moneymaker, I hope just to break even, eventually, at $80/book plus shipping.  In the USA shipping is $5.00 for media mail.  I will accept PayPal, Zelle, MO and good old checks (and cash if you want to stop by for a tour!).  CLICK BANNER to send me a PM for International pricing and shipping. Manufacturer of various vintage rifle scopes for the 1903 such as our M73G4 (reproduction of the Weaver 330C) and Malcolm 8X Gen II (Unertl reproduction). Several of our scopes are used in the CMP Vintage Sniper competition on top of 1903 rifles. Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Specializing in premium ammunition and reloading components. Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

  3. #2
    Contributing Member CINDERS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Last On
    03-25-2024 @ 11:01 AM
    Location
    South West Western Australia
    Posts
    7,734
    Real Name
    CINDERS
    Local Date
    03-29-2024
    Local Time
    10:57 PM
    Set your sights for the known range say they go to 200 at the lowest then have a crack at a target at that distance or you could try it at a 100 but you would have to know a few things the bullets velocity - bullet B.C - Mid range trajectory of the round so you could calculate it back to where the bullet should strike the target above the POA.

    Now the easy bit put a target at 100 & shoot at it using the two holds 6 & center mass & go from there its allot harder today to get it correct to match the sight ladder because the B.C's are better so the bullet flies flatter meaning you have to use a higher range setting on your sights to get the POA/POI to correlate.
    Best thing is range time at all the distances you shoot over and note down the sight setting (D.O.P.E)for every range for that load your using just like we all had to do I have notes on all my rifles.
    Change the load your back at it but with the settings already known adjustments are only minor either way dependent on just how much you vary the powder load if you change the powder then you need to start again as the burn rate may be different and may induce a different harmonic in the barrel basically just go out and shoot and see what happens. There is nothing wrong with range time and burnt gunpowder with a few mates............
    Last edited by CINDERS; 05-20-2018 at 01:22 AM.

  4. Avoid Ads - Become a Contributing Member - Click HERE
  5. #3
    Legacy Member speckles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Last On
    02-23-2024 @ 05:42 PM
    Location
    west tn
    Posts
    180
    Real Name
    andy L
    Local Date
    03-29-2024
    Local Time
    09:57 AM
    I am 6-8 inches high at 100 yards with my G1911. My point of aim is interface between black and white of 12 inch shoot and see at 6 o'clock .. that puts me slightly over the bullseye. depending on the day I am closer if I drop an inch off the bottom of target. I use GP11

  6. #4
    Contributing Member Ovidio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Last On
    Today @ 10:06 AM
    Location
    Pordenone, Italy
    Posts
    2,141
    Real Name
    Ovidio Gentiloni
    Local Date
    03-29-2024
    Local Time
    03:57 PM
    Same as with my K31icon with my reloads.
    I like it because it allows me to aim with 6’clock hold at 100 meters with the standard 16” target.
    They land in the bullseye (if I make my part).
    34a cp., btg. Susa, 3° rgt. Alpini

  7. #5
    Legacy Member RC20's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Last On
    02-07-2022 @ 09:20 PM
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    316
    Local Date
    03-29-2024
    Local Time
    05:57 AM
    If it helps, Military rifle came with a "battle sight" setup. The idea was to be able to aim at an enemy midpoint and with the 30-06, it was something like 500 yards that you would hit them head to toe regardless of the range.

    Have to do a bit of sleuthing, not sure what the GP11 type guns were set at and maybe changed from 1911 to the K-31.

    In reality, the average shooter would miss anything at 500 yards anyway. Most combat is 300 yards or less. Iron sights at 2500 the 30-06 and 1917 could do (theoretically) forget it.

    Sure the trained marksmen could make them do that, average guy, good grief charley bronw. But that was "doctrine"

    Simple is best and aim at the bottom of the black ball. Make the ball bigger or smaller to get POI where you want it.

    1903 had a sliding sight for "accurate" it really sucks. 1917 had a raised peep sight that was very good actually. The lay down peep was 450 yard or some such battle sight.

    A good shot could do things with a 1917 that you normally could not do. Sgt York being a case in point.

    I found this on the sight.

    he standard K31 iron sight line elevation concept is somewhat unconventional and designed for center hold (point of aim = point of impact) at the 100 m (109 yd) and 200 m (219 yd) meter settings with GP11 ammunition. Starting at 300 m (328 yd) and more distant ranges the shooter should aim below the bottom of the target, so that the front sight's post is just out of the way.[4] The 6 o'clock hold is intended for target shooting at 300 m (328 yd), meaning the sight line is designed to let GP11 ammunition hit 30 cm (11.8 in) over the point of aim on a 60 cm (23.6 in) diameter bulls eye the Swissicon military and shooting clubs used for sighting in the K31, marksmanship training and competitions. A 6 o'clock hold is only good for a known target size at a known distance and will not hold zero without user adjustment if these factors are varied.[5] Combined with GP11 ammunition the 300 m (328 yd) and 400 m (437 yd) settings can alternatively be used as center holds for 400 m (437 yd) and 500 m (547 yd).
    Last edited by RC20; 05-22-2018 at 05:03 PM.

  8. #6
    Contributing Member CINDERS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Last On
    03-25-2024 @ 11:01 AM
    Location
    South West Western Australia
    Posts
    7,734
    Real Name
    CINDERS
    Local Date
    03-29-2024
    Local Time
    10:57 PM
    The longer range settings like the 2000 on the 303's was a carry over from earlier conflicts where a beaten zone was wanted at extended ranges without the aid of a heavy automatic weapon like a Hotchkiss 1 pdr I have read the tests conducted by the UKicon and it is quite interesting with say 50-100 men all firing at the same time at a distant target infact they even tested it for over the hill plunging fire.

  9. #7
    Legacy Member RC20's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Last On
    02-07-2022 @ 09:20 PM
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    316
    Local Date
    03-29-2024
    Local Time
    05:57 AM
    Yep. One reason for the 30-06 range was that they also used area saturation fire from machine guns.

    Same idea as the Volley Sight in the P14 except out of one gun.

    I think that went out of vogue completely with Mortars and controlled artillery.

    A good question would be did anyone really stand out in the open where any of it could do that to you on the front lines?

  10. #8
    Legacy Member Pierre's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Last On
    01-06-2024 @ 11:13 AM
    Location
    Lost Prairie Montana
    Posts
    163
    Real Name
    Pierre St. Marie
    Local Date
    03-29-2024
    Local Time
    10:57 AM
    If you're G11 is shooting high at the lowest setting........... simply replace the sight blade with the 100 yard sight blade.

    P

  11. #9
    Legacy Member amadeus76's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Last On
    01-11-2024 @ 06:51 PM
    Location
    Harker Heights, tx
    Posts
    305
    Local Date
    03-29-2024
    Local Time
    09:57 AM
    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
    If you're G11 is shooting high at the lowest setting........... simply replace the sight blade with the 100 yard sight blade.

    P
    If only they were readily available

  12. #10
    Legacy Member Pierre's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Last On
    01-06-2024 @ 11:13 AM
    Location
    Lost Prairie Montana
    Posts
    163
    Real Name
    Pierre St. Marie
    Local Date
    03-29-2024
    Local Time
    10:57 AM
    They are. For the k31, k11 and 1911. Swiss Products | swissproductsusa | Kalispell Montana

+ Reply to Thread

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Raven Rocks