+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 7 of 7

Thread: Pattern 1853 Enfield Musket - Tang Repair

Click here to increase the font size Click here to reduce the font size
  1. #1
    Contributing Member M100C's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Last On
    10-17-2018 @ 09:26 PM
    Location
    Michigan, USA
    Posts
    27
    Local Date
    10-19-2018
    Local Time
    09:46 PM

    Pattern 1853 Enfield Musket - Tang Repair

    Hi All,
    I have taken in an old 1861 dated Pattern 1853 Enfield (Tower) Musket. Looks to be all original, and I have posed pictures of some markings under the barrel and lock. The musket is well used and pitted, so there are no barrel marking still visible. I welcome any information on its make, etc.

    It has what appears to be a real old inlaid brass tang repair (on top of the tang) ending in a botched screw head holding the trigger guard. I cannot make out whether there is a screw passing through the tang, and the relationship between the diamond atop the tang and the trigger guard screw below; if there is any relationship. Any thoughts?








  2. # ADS
    Friends and Sponsors
    Join Date
    October 2006
    Location
    Milsurps.Com
    Posts
    All Threads
    No Drill-Tap scope mounts for Mosin Nagant, Mauser K98K, Yugo M48, Swedish M96 and M38, Swiss K31, K11, 1911 and more! Bringing mil-surplus rifles to modern standard without damaging historical values! We specialise in military utensils and artefacts such as helmets, daggers, medals and badges, etc.  The on-line store is intended for personal browsing and searching of collecting objects. All items are provided historical value only and can be used for home collection or other purposes except of fascism, Nazism or other extremism manifestation or its propaganda. LIMITED TIME OFFER FROM THE AMERICAN GUNSMITHING INSTITUTE: Get Immediate Online Access To AGI's NEW Armorer's Course for Glock Pistols, Covering Every Generation of Glocks, Including the Latest Model 42/43 and Double Stack Pistols for ONLY $7.00! Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Chuck in Denver ... Buy-Sell-Trade .. Guns, Cars Motorcycles Service Publications - Collectors books that earn their place in your library! Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

  3. #2
    Advisory Panel Patrick Chadwick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Last On
    Today @ 08:46 AM
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    4,555
    Local Date
    10-20-2018
    Local Time
    03:46 AM
    It looks like an iron nail inserted from the bottom, with its head in the brass diamond, and then hammered down in the hole in the buttplate tang. Some kind of emergency repair, I imagine.
    Unfortunately, you have not provided a photo that shows the whole of the butt, so one cannot tell whether this ugly-looking repair was needed to close up a split in the butt.
    Anyway, a neater repair would be a long bolt through the (presumed) through-hole, screwed into a threaded hole in the brass diamond. Which is how I would tidy it up, unless there is a historical reason to leave it as it is - e.g. "battlefield repair & part of its history".

    Quote Originally Posted by M100C View Post
    there are no barrel marking still visible
    Well, you contradicted yourself by providing a photo of barrel markings! Seems it was No.789 of a batch by GP. It looks as if GP was a manufacturer of significant quantities. I suggest that you post a query here

    British Militaria Forums - Victorian-era British arms, accoutrements, and military history.

    where you have the best chance of someone being able to identify "GP".
    Last edited by Patrick Chadwick; 06-26-2018 at 05:14 AM.

  4. The Following 2 Members Say Thank You to Patrick Chadwick For This Useful Post:


  5. Avoid Ads - Become a Contributing Member - Click HERE
  6. #3
    Really Senior Member butlersrangers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Last On
    Today @ 02:37 PM
    Location
    S.E. Michigan, U.S.A.
    Posts
    405
    Local Date
    10-19-2018
    Local Time
    09:46 PM
    "G.P." may stand for Government of Portugal. The Portuguese used Britishicon pattern arms in the late 1800s. IIRC - Portuguese arsenals manufactured some of their British pattern arms.

    FWIW - Portuguese Snider cavalry carbines, made by B.S.A. around 1875, are marked "G.P." beneath the Portuguese crown, on the tail of the lock-plate.

    IMHO - The "Nail/Rivet" repair and "Diamond shaped brass inlay" on your '1853 Enfield' pattern ML appear to be later amateur work.

    Last edited by butlersrangers; 06-26-2018 at 06:49 PM.

  7. Thank You to butlersrangers For This Useful Post:


  8. #4
    Really Senior Member butlersrangers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Last On
    Today @ 02:37 PM
    Location
    S.E. Michigan, U.S.A.
    Posts
    405
    Local Date
    10-19-2018
    Local Time
    09:46 PM
    BTW - I don't recall seeing Britishicon made, (Enfield or Tower), lock-plates serial numbered on the inside to match a number on the barrel, like your #789.

    Possibly this is indicative of manufacture in an arsenal on the Continent, like in Portugal.

  9. The Following 2 Members Say Thank You to butlersrangers For This Useful Post:


  10. #5
    Advisory Panel Patrick Chadwick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Last On
    Today @ 08:46 AM
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    4,555
    Local Date
    10-20-2018
    Local Time
    03:46 AM
    Even after cleaning my reading glasses, I can't see a lockplate in Michigan from here in Mauserland. So how about a photo of the lockplate?

  11. Thank You to Patrick Chadwick For This Useful Post:


  12. #6
    Contributing Member M100C's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Last On
    10-17-2018 @ 09:26 PM
    Location
    Michigan, USA
    Posts
    27
    Local Date
    10-19-2018
    Local Time
    09:46 PM
    Thread Starter

    UPDATE: P53 Enfield Musket - Tang Repair

    Hey All,
    I did not catch the replies to this post. Very sorry; will go back and thank!

    @Peter
    I am not sure what is up. I posted a picture of the backside of the lock plate, but the link below also has many more pictures.

    All,
    I am befuddled about the stock. It looks old, but I noted it does not have the step usually found at the lock side of the rearmost barrel band; instead, it is sloped. I don't think it was sanded; it looks to be cut that way. Also, there are no barrel band springs. Only mark I can find is under the rear trigger guard, which is marked "CD".

    Again, the lock is a Tower dated 1861. The barrel and lock have matching numbers as do the trigger guard and trigger. I have seen reference to "GP" as a mark for Portugal, but it does not have these marks under the crown.

    I am trying to decide whether the gun is worth repairing, and all advice would be appreciated.

    Musket - Google Drive

  13. #7
    Advisory Panel Patrick Chadwick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Last On
    Today @ 08:46 AM
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    4,555
    Local Date
    10-20-2018
    Local Time
    03:46 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by M100C View Post
    Also, there are no barrel band springs.
    Depending on when it was made, there don't have to be, It might have screwed bands (normal, or with recessed screw heads - known as Baddeley bands). Once again, this is shooting in the dark if we don't get any photos.

    Oops! Sorry, overlooked the link.

    Yes, you have a P53 with Baddeley bands, referred to by Skennertonicon as the 4th model.
    The filed-off step on the wood behind the lower band is definitely "Bubbary", as the step locates the band.

    The lockplate is marked 1861 over Tower. Tower-marked rifles were rifles delivered by contractors and the lockplates were marked with a crown, but without a V.R beneath the crown, as they were not produced in a government arsenal.



    Numbers that are only visible internally - such as on the inside of the lockplate - are contractor's or assembler's batch numbers that are no longer visible when the rifle has been fully assembled, and thus nothing to do with the service number of the rifle.

    Likeswise the GP on the inside of the lockplate and the CDS on the inletting for the trigger guard are initials of the contractors (locksmiths, stockmakers) and nothing to do with the official ownership of the gun. Referring back to the post by Butlers Rangers, it is conceivable that the components were delivered from Belgiumicon.

    You have a contractor-made Enfield P53, 4th Model, many of which (according to Skennerton) were used for conversion to Snider breechloaders. It has, unfortunately, been messed around with, so the collector value is relatively low for the type.

    But any rifle of that vintage is worth caring for and keeping or bringing back to good shooting condition.
    Last edited by Patrick Chadwick; 08-31-2018 at 05:28 PM.

  14. Thank You to Patrick Chadwick For This Useful Post:


+ Reply to Thread

Similar Threads

  1. Enfield Pattern 1853 Nepalese
    By tower06 in forum Black Powder
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 08-06-2014, 01:55 PM
  2. What comes between an 1853 Enfield and a Martini-Henry?
    By Patrick Chadwick in forum Black Powder
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 06-17-2011, 09:34 AM
  3. 1853 enfield curiousity....
    By Matt Wolff in forum Black Powder
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 07-20-2010, 03:04 PM
  4. 1853 1862 Enfield
    By therifleman in forum Black Powder
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 06-29-2010, 01:23 PM
  5. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 01-17-2010, 01:00 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts