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Thread: CDN 2013 mk8 in a T?

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  1. #21
    Advisory Panel Lee Enfield's Avatar
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    Whatever you sight it in for will be dead on.

    The windage and elevation for other distances may not.

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  3. #22
    Really Senior Member jonh172's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Enfield View Post
    Whatever you sight it in for will be dead on.

    The windage and elevation for other distances may not.
    Right, but with what Tiriaq said how the ammo was curtailed to be on at 200 with the iron sights, wouldnt that mean their guns are zeroed at 100 then 'on' at 200 once set on the sight?
    The same would go for a T sniper optic zeroed at 100, no?

    If they zeroed at 200 then the ammo wouldnt need to be changed, just their front sight.

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    Advisory Panel Surpmil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiriaq View Post
    The Canadian Rangers were the last users of No. 4 rifles. Long Branch made rifles were standard issue, often brand new; ammunition issued was late WW2 production.
    Then the supplies of both ran out.
    W-W commercial 180gr soft point ammunition was procured and issued as a stopgap measure.
    Long Branch rifles were sourced on the surplus market. Eventually EAL rifles were issued in quantity, and No. 4s of other manufacturers were acquired. Hence the Britishicon No. 4 Mk. 2 rifles in service.
    Ball ammunition was desired. Much Ranger issued ammunition is used for hunting purposes; the softpoint is fine for that. Generally Provincial and Territorial game departments disapprove of ball ammunition for hunting. There is also an issue with softpoint being issued for military purposes.
    Anyway, IVI was the sole supplier of issue ammunition to the Cdn. Gov't, and was contracted to supply .303 ammunition. Mk. 7/7z .303 ball had not been produced for decades, let alone Mk. 8. Don't know when Canadaicon phased out Vickers guns, and started issuing 1919A4 Browning guns.
    The story I was told is that IVI was supplied with the specs for 8z ammunition, this being the last, most recent, Mark of .303 ball designed. The order was made without knowledge of the different applications for Mk. 7 and Mk. 8 cartridges.
    Someone then realized that 8z ballistics and No. 4 sight calibrations were not in harmony, and the load was tweaked so that trajectory and sights would agree at 200y.
    IVI was also contracted to supply .303 softpoint ammunition. Similar brown boxes, but quite different labelling.
    Incidentally, not only is that IVI 8z good ammunition, it was also quite costly. A sole source supplier and relatively limited production will drive up the cost.

    7.62x51 rifles are now replacing the No. 4s in Ranger service. I do not know the last date that might be found on the.303 headstamps.
    That is the kind of silly error made when institutional memory is lost. Still, it only took them 20+ years to decide on the new Ranger rifle, so perhaps we should compliment them on the promptness with which they selected the wrong ammo type, changed the loading to better approximate MkVII and then neglected to change the markings on the boxes!
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    Advisory Panel tiriaq's Avatar
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    I've probably got a few specimen rounds, should put some over the chronograph, see what the velocity is, if it matches Mk. 8 specs.

    If you stop and think about it, there is absolutely no good reason to order Mk. 8 ammunition when it was intended solely for use in No. 4 rifles.

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  9. #25
    Advisory Panel Surpmil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiriaq View Post
    I've probably got a few specimen rounds, should put some over the chronograph, see what the velocity is, if it matches Mk. 8 specs.

    If you stop and think about it, there is absolutely no good reason to order Mk. 8 ammunition when it was intended solely for use in No. 4 rifles.
    Did you mean to say it was intended solely for use in MGs?
    "Deer-stalking would be a very fine sport if only the deer had guns." W. S. Gilbert.

  10. #26
    Advisory Panel tiriaq's Avatar
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    No, the ammunition supplied to the Rangers was intended solely for use in rifles.

  11. #27
    Advisory Panel Surpmil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiriaq View Post
    No, the ammunition supplied to the Rangers was intended solely for use in rifles.
    Roger on that, I see how the sentence could be read either way!
    "Deer-stalking would be a very fine sport if only the deer had guns." W. S. Gilbert.

  12. #28
    Really Senior Member jonh172's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiriaq View Post
    No, the ammunition supplied to the Rangers was intended solely for use in rifles.
    Just adding to the mk7 vs mk8 confusion.
    Thanks for the info, I will fire with confidence!


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