6.5x50 Japanese

[Jsne]

Hi guys.

Bought a Arisaka T38 Carbine.
Any load recomented? And are some loads better for the carbine than the long rifle?
I have new Prvi Cases and PT some 140 gr FMJ S&B bullets. That's what I think I will start up with. But if any experts come in with other advice ?

About Carbine VS long rifle. Any advice about fast /slow burning Powder?

JSNE

Information

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[Sunray]

Don't think there was a Carbine and rifle load. This is the best Japanese stuff site on the net. Nothing about the ammo though.
This is out of my old Lyman manual. The formatting isn't great. Opens in 'Notepad'.
Bullet diameter jacketed: .264".
Bullet diameter cast: .264" to .266".
Max Case Length: 1.988".
Trim-to: 1.978".
Max OAL w. bullet: 2.940".

85 grain Jacketed
Powder Start Vel Max Vel
IMR3031 33.0 2506 37.0 2898
IMR4895 35.0 2557 39.0 2840
IMR4064 36.0 2500 40.0* 2873
IMR4320 37.0 2577 41.0 2915
H380 39.0 2577 43.5* 2865

Accuracy load: IMR4320 41.0 2915 fps

100 grain Jacketed
Powder Start Vel Max Vel
IMR3031 32.0 2444 36.0 2754
IMR4895 34.0 2415 38.0 2754
IMR4064 35.0 2421 39.0* 2747
IMR4320 36.0 2481 40.0 2840
IMR4350 38.0 2298 41.5* 2525
BALLC2 38.0 2604 41.0 2840
H335 37.0 2590 40.0 2857
H380 39.0 2525 43.0* 2739

Accuracy Load: H335 37.0 2590 fps

120 grain Jacketed
Powder Start Vel Max Vel
IMR3031 31.0 2358 35.0 2638
IMR4895 33.0 2341 37.0 2659
IMR4064 34.0 2358 38.0* 2688
IMR4320 35.0 2375 39.0 2739
IMR4350 38.0 2325 41.5* 2557
BALLC2 35.0 2380 39.0 2672
H335 35.0 2450 38.0 2702
H380 38.0 2439 43.0* 2702

Accuracy Load: IMR4064 34.0 2358 fps

129 grain Jacketed
Powder Start Vel Max Vel
IMR3031 31.0 2314 34.0 2544
IMR4895 32.0 2237 36.0 2525
IMR4064 33.0 2252 37.0* 2570
IMR4320 34.0 2320 38.0 2610
IMR4350 38.0 2298 41.5* 2557
BALLC2 34.0 2257 38.0 2544
H335 34.0 2331 37.0 2551
H380 38.0 2403 42.0* 2610

Accuracy Load: IMR3031 34.0 2544 fps

140 grain Jacketed
Powder Start Vel Max Vel
IMR3031 30.0 2192 33.0 2409
IMR4895 31.0 2150 35.0 2433
IMR4064 32.0 2183 36.0* 2475
IMR4320 33.0 2232 37.0 2512
IMR4350 36.0 2141 40.0* 2409
BALLC2 33.0 2164 37.0 2444
H335 33.0 2252 36.0 2457
H380 37.0 2298 41.0* 2487

Accuracy Load: IMR3031 31.5 2309 fps
Factory Duplication Load: IMR3031 31.2 2272 fps

160 grain Jacketed
Powder Start Vel Max Vel
IMR3031 25.0 1800 28.0 2020
IMR4895 27.0 1824 30.0 2049
IMR4064 28.0 1868 31.0 2087
IMR4320 29.0 1915 32.0 2123
IMR4350 31.0 1778 35.0* 2100
BALLC2 29.0 1860 32.0 2100
H335 28.0 1805 31.0 2070
H380 32.0 1976 36.0* 2164

Accuracy Load: IMR3031 26.5 1923 fps
Factory Duplucation Load: IMR3031 26.5 1901 fps

103 grain Cast w. Gas Check
Lyman Mold #266305 #2 Alloy
Powder Start Vel Max Vel
2400 16.5 1824 19.0 2044
IMR4227 21.0 2028 23.0 2207
IMR4198 24.0 2114 27.0 2352
IMR4895 28.0 2016 33.0 2375

Accuracy Load: IMR4198 24.0 2114 fps

119 grain Cast w. Gas Check
Lyman Mold #266324 #2 Alloy
Powder Start Vel Max Vel
2400 15.0 1615 18.0 1868
IMR4227 19.5 1893 22.0 2083
IMR4198 22.0 1919 24.0 2057
IMR4895 28.0 1976 31.0 2092

Accuracy Load: 2400 15.0 1615 fps

129 grain Cast w. Gas Check
Lyman Mold #266455 #2 Alloy
Powder Start Vel Max Vel
2400 14.0 1488 19.0 1960
IMR4227 19.0 1818 21.0 1988
IMR4198 23.0 1980 27.0 2145
IMR4895 27.0 1996 31.0 2242

Accuracy Load: IMR4198 23.5 1999 fps

143 grain Cast w. Gas Check
Lyman Mold #266469 #2 Alloy
Powder Start Vel Max Vel
2400 14.0 1515 18.0 1845
IMR4227 18.0 1683 21.0 2159
IMR4198 26.0 1858 32.0 2272

Accuracy Load: IMR4198 26.0 1858 fps

(*) indicates compressed load.

[Jsne]

Hi Sunray

Just what I need😀😀👍👍

Jsne

[green]

Found that a flat base bullet is required in this calibre. Hornaday 140 gr spire point worked well.

[Jsne]

Hi Green

Thank you
I will try that.

Jsne

[Sunray]

Oh good. Always pays to ask if you need something unusual. Somebody will have it or know where you get it. The old Lyman manuals are a treasure trove of info and data. Dunno if the newer ones are as well.
Have the 7.7 Jap data if you ever need it.

[Jsne]

The 6.5 data is fine thank you.

I was looking at an web action side. and discover the type 38 carbine. only 5 min left. Place a bid. And got it.

First time I ever seen a Arisaka for sale in Denmark.

But then no reloading help for my normal Network.

so once akain thank you for data.

JSNE

[bob q]

If you are needing a load for the early T-38 carbine from your other post , most of the above load data will not work well . You need to slug and measure your bore . Early 6.5mm used larger grooves and different type rifling than the later made rifles . Your groove can run as large as .269 . That means .264 -.266 dia cast bullets will be a waste of time , as well as the short light jacketed bullets . Norma ammo with the 156 rn bullet is a good start , you will have case head swell and that is normal . Powder burn rate from rifle to carbine is another myth . After test firing over 100 6.5mm Type -38 rifles and carbines [ not just looking up loads ] , my best load in most carbines is 36.4 of I-4350 [ a slower powder ] with a 140 bullet . With larger grooves a flat base bullet will help , with the Hornady .264 rn [ 34.1 of I-4350 ] for the worst case . For an extreme example several of my very early guns have .269 to .271 groove barrels , they keyholed everything past 50 yards . I went to the Hornady .267 dia Carcano bullet [ which is bad for many Carcanos ] and the T-38's started to shoot very well . My 3 digit serial number gun [ 2nd month of production ] was good for 1.5 inch 5-shot groups at 100 yards .

[Jsne]

Thank you bob
I will try that
I think there will go about a month before I have the rifle.
I have two Carcanos a long m91 from 1918
And a cavalry Carbine from 1916
Both shote werry well with Lapua .264 Mega 155 gr
maby the will run ok in the Arisaka ad well.

Then I maby have somr questions then😀

Jsne

[Bruce McAskill]

My experience with a T-38 carbine is a bit different then bob q. MY carbine liked a 140 gr flat base bullet with 33 gr's of 3031. This would shoot high left about 12 inches but the groups would be about 2 inches at 200 yards and it was consistent. I don't remember if the 140 gr. bullets were Sierra or Hornady that was so good.