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  1. #21
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    Thanks for that Bruce. I'm grateful. Many years ago (as a teenager & in my twenties, so it's ages ago!) I used to be quite a keen collector of both 303 & 7.92mm cartridges. Somewhere in the dark recesses of my loft I think I still have copies of both '.303 Inch' by the late Peter Labbett, & '7.92mm' (not sure if that's the exact title of the latter) by Daniel Kent. I think I'll try to dig them out & see if there's anything in them specifically relating to this topic. It's proving quite fascinating.

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    A Collector's View - The SMLE Short Magazine Lee Enfield 1903-1989. It is 300 8.5x11 inch pages with 1,000+ photo’s, most in color, and each book is serial-numbered.  Covering the SMLE from 1903 to the end of production in India in 1989 it looks at how each model differs and manufacturer differences from a collecting point of view along with the major accessories that could be attached to the rifle. For the record this is not a moneymaker, I hope just to break even, eventually, at $80/book plus shipping.  In the USA shipping is $5.00 for media mail.  I will accept PayPal, Zelle, MO and good old checks (and cash if you want to stop by for a tour!).  CLICK BANNER to send me a PM for International pricing and shipping. Manufacturer of various vintage rifle scopes for the 1903 such as our M73G4 (reproduction of the Weaver 330C) and Malcolm 8X Gen II (Unertl reproduction). Several of our scopes are used in the CMP Vintage Sniper competition on top of 1903 rifles. Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Specializing in premium ammunition and reloading components. Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by no4mk1t View Post
    ...Winchester also loaded some in the early 80's. Wonder who it was for?
    https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../uXX6pQc-1.jpg
    A friend who was an Olin engineer said it was part of an 8 million round contract for South Africa. When Congress expanded the arms embargo the WCC 81 headstamped started showing up on the market. The Vickers loved it!!

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  5. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce_in_Oz View Post
    Secondly, early "con-corrosive" brews were found to be "unreliable" in extreme heat or cold and it took a fair while to do "aging" tests to see what happened in long-term storage, even under ideal conditions.
    My general experience with Britishicon military surplus ammunition, and .303 in particular, regardless of where in the Commonwealth it was manufactured once it was 20-25 years old or older "click BOOM" hangfires were not uncommon. Radway Green from the early Fifties or POFicon from the Seventies are equally suspect. On the other hand US cal. 30 M2 ball and Germanicon 8x57 and 8x56R loaded during WW2 fire as reliably as if they were made last week.

    Has anyone else found that to be the case?

  6. #24
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    The '43 date Winchester .303 Mk.7z is loaded with non corrosive primers. Canadianicon Mk.7z loaded in the same time frame also has non corrosive primers. The Canadians manufactured normal cordite/corrosive primed Mk.7 up until the changeover in 1943. I still have some very clean '42 date Canadian Mk.7 that is not click-bang as it must have been stored well. It's temperature extremes that cause the primers to go bad.

    All U.S. mfg. WW1 production .303 ammo was loaded with corrosive primers as far as I know.

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    Legacy Member Bruce_in_Oz's Avatar
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    Here is the "recipe" for the priming mixture in a typical Britishicon Mercuric primer for .303 ammo:

    Taken from Textbook of Small Arms, 1929 Edition. Page 233

    Total mass of mixture; 0.6 grain

    Eight parts by weight of fulminate of mercury
    Fourteen parts ............. of chlorate of potash
    Eighteen parts .............. of sulphide of antimony
    One part .............. of sulphur
    and One part ............... of mealed powder

    The "mealed powder" is not defined anywhere I have looked so far, but could it be black powder milled to a fine dust, to increase the amplitude and duration of the "flash"?

    Your basic non-corrosive primers use lead styphnate, barium nitrate, antimony trisulfide, powdered aluminum and tetrazene to do the job.
    Note, whilst each of the basic mixture components are relatively "harmless", several of the combustion products are quite nasty, metallic lead vapour, for starters, hence the need for proper ventilation on indoor ranges and a warning about not regularly sniffing the muzzle after shots are fired.

    This problem of toxic residue / "smoke" has given impetus to the rise of "non-toxic" primers. If you see cartridge cases with "NT" as a part of the headstamp, that is "Non Toxic' ammo. The primers and cases ARE different. All of the stuff I have seen uses a "Small" sized primer cup, BUT the flash-hole is slightly bigger than one sees in "normal" ammo. On first encounter, it was a bit of a mystery why a range pick-up .45ACP case would have a "small pistol" primer until I did a bit of searching online.

    Some of the interesting things to be found in NT primers include compounds like potassium dinitrobenzofuroxane as a primary explosive and diazodinitrophenol as a secondary sensitization explosive.

    Whilst there seems to be a fair bit of this NT ammo around, there is a lack of loading data AND the "proper" primers for reloading, so the brass just accumulates in storage boxes under the reloading bench.

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  10. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Dickicon View Post
    The '43 date Winchester .303 Mk.7z is loaded with non corrosive primers. Canadian Mk.7z loaded in the same time frame also has non corrosive primers. The Canadians manufactured normal cordite/corrosive primed Mk.7 up until the changeover in 1943. I still have some very clean '42 date Canadian Mk.7 that is not click-bang as it must have been stored well. It's temperature extremes that cause the primers to go bad.

    All U.S. mfg. WW1 production .303 ammo was loaded with corrosive primers as far as I know.
    Regarding Canadian manufactured .303, the WW2 boxer primed is deemed to be all non-corrosive, the Berdan Primed is usually deemed to be corrosive.

    Having said that, there is no guarantee that they didn't obtain US manufactured corrosive primers during the pressure of the war.


    One of the more confusing aspects is that while the Dominion Arsenals & Defence Industries Limited were crown corporations, the Dominion Cartridge Company (DCCO) was a private company owned by CIL (Canadian Industries Ltd.), which was owned by ICI (Imperial Chemical Industries)...

    DI/Z (Defence Industries Limited) WW2 headstamped ammo is boxer primed Non-Corrosive. DIL was a "war industry" crown corporation set up with assistance of Dominion Cartridge Company [DA, DAC^ headstamped] (a private company) which went to non-corrosive primers before WWI for their commercial loadings.

    DAC^ (Dominion Arsenals) is usually NC boxer primed,

    DI/V (Dominion Arsenals Verdun) ??

    The Government Arsenals, and wartime factories used Berdan Primers - well into the 1950s (I have some 1958 dated Berdan primed Canadian .303 Mk7 ball). All Berdan primed .303 manufactured in Canadaicon is "probably" corrosive primed.
    BSN from the Republic of Alberta

    http://www.cartridgecollectors.org/

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  12. #27
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    Interesting. I've never seen Canadianicon mfg. Mk.7, (cordite, Berdan primed), dated later than 1942. I think DI/V is Valcartier? Not sure on that one.

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