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  1. #11
    Legacy Member nijalninja's Avatar
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    Now that is quite handy to know Daan. Do you mean SA as in South Australiaicon, or South Africa? From reading the Modern Gunsmith on here I've gotten to appreciate my tools a bit more and come to understand the need for specialised tools and even more so the need to be able to make your own. Ultimately maybe if I could make up a program of a few different courses or trades that all come into armouring then I could do them at the same time as simply repairing old guns and taking on projects to expand my knowledge.

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    A Collector's View - The SMLE Short Magazine Lee Enfield 1903-1989. It is 300 8.5x11 inch pages with 1,000+ photo’s, most in color, and each book is serial-numbered.  Covering the SMLE from 1903 to the end of production in India in 1989 it looks at how each model differs and manufacturer differences from a collecting point of view along with the major accessories that could be attached to the rifle. For the record this is not a moneymaker, I hope just to break even, eventually, at $80/book plus shipping.  In the USA shipping is $5.00 for media mail.  I will accept PayPal, Zelle, MO and good old checks (and cash if you want to stop by for a tour!).  CLICK BANNER to send me a PM for International pricing and shipping. Manufacturer of various vintage rifle scopes for the 1903 such as our M73G4 (reproduction of the Weaver 330C) and Malcolm 8X Gen II (Unertl reproduction). Several of our scopes are used in the CMP Vintage Sniper competition on top of 1903 rifles. Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Specializing in premium ammunition and reloading components. Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

  3. #12
    Contributing Member Gil Boyd's Avatar
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    As long as you are patient with anything mechanical and take it apart memorising the methodical sequence you did that, and find parts that need replacing or not as the case may be, and reassemble it, you have taken the first steps to learning about firearms.

    However, many parts involved in weapons have tolerances built into them as they are fired and tested, this area is one where you need to spend time with an armourer/technician to teach you that specialism, using technical drawings and all at your disposal to rebuild it correctly and then have the bottle to test it yourself!!
    'Tonight my men and I have been through hell and back again, but the look on your faces when we let you out of the hall - we'd do it all again tomorrow.' Major Chris Keeble's words to Goose Green villagers on 29th May 1982 - 2 PARA

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  5. #13
    Legacy Member MSW2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nijalninja View Post
    Now that is quite handy to know Daan. Do you mean SA as in South Australiaicon, or South Africa? From reading the Modern Gunsmith on here I've gotten to appreciate my tools a bit more and come to understand the need for specialised tools and even more so the need to be able to make your own. Ultimately maybe if I could make up a program of a few different courses or trades that all come into armouring then I could do them at the same time as simply repairing old guns and taking on projects to expand my knowledge.
    South Africa.

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    Legacy Member nijalninja's Avatar
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    Gil, I seem to have a lot more patience with guns that anything else mechanical. Cars drive me up the wall. The tolerances and all that make sense in most cases to me after I study them long enough, but I'm not sure where to find technical drawings and whatnot for them. I suppose a certain few will be on here, otherwise I'll have to go get Skennertonicon's Small Arms books on them I suppose.

    Cheers MSW2.

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    Legacy Member Bruce_in_Oz's Avatar
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    The advent of the digital camera has been a boon to noting assembly and disassembly.

    You can then upload the entire sequence, with detailed text notes for future reference, into a computer document. Also a good record at completion of a repair etc., in case the customer has a subsequent "oops" moment and tries to lumber you with it.

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  9. #16
    Contributing Member Gil Boyd's Avatar
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    MSW2,
    Good luck to you then cobber, you are half way there then, let us know how you get on
    Last edited by Gil Boyd; 08-22-2018 at 02:05 AM.
    'Tonight my men and I have been through hell and back again, but the look on your faces when we let you out of the hall - we'd do it all again tomorrow.' Major Chris Keeble's words to Goose Green villagers on 29th May 1982 - 2 PARA

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    Legacy Member MSW2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gil Boyd View Post
    MSW2,
    Good luck to you then cobber, you are half way there then, let us know how you get on
    If things keep going like they do here now I might have to give up the half for a fresh start with my family in a country with less of a commie bent

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    Hi Nijalninja, it would be hard to pickup a decent set of skills without some trade training. And either way is a long road. IMO you'd be best served to do a metal trade like fitting and turning or toolmaking, and continue to pursue your interest and pursue your projects. The formal trade training will give you the basis of the skills and experience necessary to apply to your firearms interest. It will put you in command of the tools of the trade so to speak, and furthermore will provide you with income, and justification for the expense of the many of the tools and pieces of equipment you will absolutely need.
    You will find people who will help you along the way, but they don't seem to come out of the woodwork until your b###s deep in it.
    It may seem like a long way round, but in reality it's the way it happens in Australiaicon, and a 4 year trade in anything here means you'll pretty well never be looking for job. I think in the last 20 odd years I have been hard up for work for about 1 week... And I was probably drunk that week!
    Mind you, 14 months at one of the full time Gunsmithing Colleges in the US would be pretty sweet if you could come up with the 14 months and 70 odd grand for fees and to keep yourself.

  12. #19
    Legacy Member nijalninja's Avatar
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    Hey Tbone, I reckon you would have the most relevant knowledge here being so relatively close to me. I've muddled with the tools I already have to do basic things but I know that is nowhere near enough and on my own it would take a lot of screw ups and frustration to really understand everything. I do actually have friends qualified in the trade but they are busy enough I don't want to bother them with all my queries.

    I've been to a fancy uni (Australianicon one) before and can't say I ever want to experience anything like that ever again, but for the sake of gunsmithing I reckon it would be something special. That being said I'm dreaming if I think I can pay that kind of money off. I'm definitely thinking a trade would be about the best way to go about it. I might try some smaller qualifications, like a cert III, in machining and cabinet making to get a taste for it. You don't want an apprentice now do you Tbone? :P

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    Like others have said, Armourer and Gunsmith are two very different trades, in the UKicon there are very few true Gunsmiths left, I know an Armourer who was doing a Gunsmith apprenticeship with a well known Birmingham Company until they fired him.......... he was half way though and loved it, although they tackle every part of the trade it does get split down the line as you end up specializing in one particular area, his was woodwork or thats were he was heading, its the way the trade has panned out now even then its split further engraving, polishing, finishing etc.

    An Armourer now is just a parts changer, there are a few fixes here and there but its mainly new for old, the days of range testing went a long time ago too.......... The paper trail associated with all repairs, Weapons, vehicles etc has or is becoming a thing of the past.........Computers are the new paperwork (if you can find one to use) in fact Armourers are becoming a thing of the past in the Resreves, also other trades are becoming less and the Government are keen to offer contracts to to civilian companies to do the work in the future..........

    Personally I'd look around for a trade, myself I'm a Fitter & Turner by trade, although I spent the last year loathing my apprenticeship and couldn't wait to go away to Sea (Merchant Navy) I look back now and have to say it was the best thing I ever did and the training in the first year was the best on offer anywhere in NorthWest (UK), it stood me in good stead for the Merchant Navy and the training has been invaluable at times.

    An instance I always remember is in Hawaii having the ships steering gear in bits and chasing a battered thread on a eight inch diameter, eight foot Hydraulic ram with minimal files to hand and under the spotlight of a lamp.......( it was like a scene from an old War film) not everyones cup of tea, but after spending over six months of filing and scraping in an Apprenticeship it comes quite natural.

    It was a hell of a repair, the piston internal thread had to be chased too, that was left to a mate who was a magician on a lathe, after many hours he appeared with the piston and I'd just finished removing the battered part of the thread which was about 1/2 " and beyond repair ......... there was a silence as he passed me the piston and the, Old man, Chief and Second watched over as I screwed it on the ram.... it sailed on without any hesitation.

    That particular repair saved the company thousands.........but probably a million or so in the bigger picture as we sailed on time and loaded our cargo as planned.

    There have been plenty of other times I use the skills I learnt but have to admit even now with them skills most work on a ship gets done by shore side gangs as we don't have enough time or the staff, its a shame really as the youngsters don't get the opportunity to do the repairs and gain the skills.

    Although I'm an RFD (Registered Firearms Dealer) I don't do as much as I used to regarding firearms repairs it was the basis of me getting registered.(I guess there is only so many Ruger 10/22 barrels you can cut down and re thread), plenty of engineering though and have just had to admit to defeat regarding a run of small parts for a forum member here, although it has been a slow process with delays that were unexpected its the time it takes to complete one part, a CNC machine would make small work of it, but running a 60 year old slow lathe you need the patience of a saint.

    I'm spending more time now making or repairing Old Classic bike parts than any kind of "Gunsmithing" the problem with Firearm repairs is the end user......... you can re barrel a rifle and have it proofed then sign it over to the owner and this is were the problems arise..........

    Some hand loaders can become obsessive regarding max pressure and wanting to fill a case to the brim to get an old rifle to do what a modern F class rifle will do........... and when it goes bang, who do they look at straight away................. the guy who fixed it.

    I once looked at the Gunsmith trade when I was a 15 year old, even the Armourer and other trades as Gil pointed out with the Army, but my skills never laid in tests so was a few points short to qualify for a Trade, that story has been told before so wont go there, but I'm always grateful for the advice from C/Sgt Carrol.

    My advice would be look at Engineering as whole and look at the different disciplines and what training a company will give you, don't skip on the college time and exams too....... one of my regrets but never thought about it as an 18 year old working nights
    Last edited by bigduke6; 09-13-2018 at 11:54 PM.

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