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  1. #11
    Member weekend_warrior's Avatar
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    OK, not sure where that came from but good information to know. Quick question on the stock, it would be an "S" stock with two stock screws correct? got a stock S type but the only markings I see on it are RI on the muzzle end and BN 125th on the butt stock, no other marking found.

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    Really Senior Member HOOKED ON HISTORY's Avatar
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    Looks like a fun project.
    Trying to get my 1903 in shape before November 11 2018 . Not sure I am going to make it.

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    Member Smokeeaterpilot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Col. Colt View Post
    Andrew, in 1936 EVERYTHING in much of the World was segregated - not just high schools......and I don't think the ROTC - or their rifles - was to blame for that. I am pretty sure those same high schools today use different language, too. But I don't think politics and ancient wrongs is the the proper direction for this thread to take.

    Imagine, for a moment, a time in our parents time when our beloved rifles were Part of everyday life - even in high school. Here in Alaska we still have high schools with rifle ranges - but then we are not very PC, either.

    As Cooper said "The Past is Another Country, they do things differently there."

    History is not always pretty, but the triumph of right over wrong is an ongoing process - there are and were decent people in every age and at all times in history - or we would never have made any progress. Our system has flaws, but slavery was abolished here - and paid for with 600,000 lives - not so in Africa and elsewhere in the world, even today. Man is a failed creature, but for his cultivated moral sense - which seems to be in decline lately. But hope springs eternal, and God is not mocked. Virtue is eventually rewarded - and evil doers will get theirs, in life or in the end.

    My point was - and is - that this rifle is tremendously interesting for being ISSUED TO A US HIGH SCHOOL - by the US government. And the students and staff of that time were trustworthy enough to do that. Respectfully, CC
    CC,

    My apologies, sometimes with written responses versus verbal/In-Person, a lot can easily be taken out of context as the majority of communication is non-verbal.

    That being said, my response had nothing to do with pointing at anything about the segregation or the role of rifles in ROTC. And I don't disagree with your points but I think mine may have not been typed correctly.

    I was merely expanding on the citation, that the actual paperwork denotes the inventory of arms for African American Washington DC schools and that the title of the paperwork used (although common for the time) is not considered "PC" today, is probably why Frank Mallory omitted that portion when he published his SRS list containing these numbers.

    Just pointing out that the actual paperwork typically has interesting details that may be omitted from the citation.

    If that makes sense.

  6. #14
    Senior Member Col. Colt's Avatar
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    It makes perfect sense - and it's a crying shame that we cannot (any longer) just accept the unvarnished truth of the past, accept the lessons from it - and drive on. Whitewashing the past and forgetting the lessons only lets you repeat the same mistakes.

    I apologize if I came off harsh, but I myself have been thumped for bringing politics into what was really just a gun thread (on another forum) and, it was properly pointed out to me - if not very carefully handled, it can cause offense and a rift in the ranks of those whose interests on the Forum are very similar.

    I saw a "Mime" photo of the two principle characters in a scene from the 1970's movie "Blazing Saddles" - with a caption to the effect (I'm not good at paraphrasing) - "Wasn't it great to live in a time when we could make fun of bigotry and human faults and (all of us) laugh at each other." Mel Brooks nailed Everybody in that film - and we all laughed.



    Back on the great topic of Weekend Warrior's cool Rock Island '03 - it might be interesting to find as many listings of those "Public School Issued" M1903 (and other) Rifles and note were and how many were issued. Cooper implied that his large high school had a large ROTC unit in Pre-war LA - and trained in drill, marching, etc, in uniform and with REAL Rifles. Modern teachers would faint!

    Now, about this particular M1903 - it most certainly would have had an "S" Stock, and be "RI" marked like is pictured - but it needs the proper cartouche if you are restoring it to original. I am at work up north and don't have my books, but I have a Rock Island and you need to look up what inspector's cartouche would have been in use at that time to get the correct stock. If you really want to dig into the M1903, go ahead and get the books now - sometimes cheap(er) used and easy off Ebay. I personallly use Brophy's Springfield book, Poyer and even (carefully) Harrison's comb bound 1903 book - some mistakes but truly excellent drawings of each part. Study carefully, very little is hard and fast and not subject to change with new information - not everyone agrees on dates and details, so you just have to talk to the experts (some here) and draw your own conclusions and purchase parts accordingly.

    Now, if you want to Shoot your Springfield, the very best books available are from E.C. Crossman written in the 1920's/30's when the Springfield was our nation's official rifle - "The Book of the Springfield" and "Military and Sporting Rifle Shooting". Crossman was an officer in US Army Ordnance, did a lot of ballistic testing and you will know more about using a Springfield from him than any more modern source. His books (originals) and NRA leather bound reprints are available on Ebay. CC
    Last edited by Col. Colt; 08-27-2018 at 11:10 PM.

  7. #15
    Member weekend_warrior's Avatar
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    I think the stock may be correct, but I' am not seeing any other markings, it looks like the stock may of bee refinished at one point. Do you think it would worthwhile to strip the stock and look for more markings and what would you use to strip it?
    I'll have to look for those books, I've got Rock Island Rifle Model 1903 by C.S. Ferris and have been studying The Model 1903 Springfield Rifle and its Variations by Joe Poyer, I do plan on shooting my rifle so I will look for the book by E.C. Crossman.

  8. #16
    Senior Member Col. Colt's Avatar
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    Be careful - stripping wood pretty much destroys originality and "character" the way many people see it. You might try an old "Night Shot" video camera to see if any of the markings are visible - infared light I think shows up faint markings in wood (read this somewhere).

    You have the makings of a GREAT project - and a rifle that can be placed in it's home in the historical world, long ago. And who knows what else it has seen! I think it will be worthy of whatever effort you put into it.

    Before changing ANYTHING, just because a book says it is not "correct" do your research - and keep all the parts - future knowledge may show it was original despite "conventional wisdom"! CC

  9. Thank You to Col. Colt For This Useful Post:


  10. #17
    Member weekend_warrior's Avatar
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    Well kind of ran into a little snag, It seems they inletted the "S" stocks for the 1905 sight bases and mines not inletted. So I' am going to have to find another stock, Dang well lesson learned Research, Research, Research.


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