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  1. #1
    Legacy Member alextheabrachial's Avatar
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    Lee Enfield Help

    Hey everyone,

    Just joined the forum so if I posted this in the wrong area just let me know.

    I bought a Lee Enfield No 4 Mk I about three years ago, and unfortunately it's a sporterized version. Recently I've been looking to undo that, but I've noticed a two main things about it that I was hoping somebody might have the answer to.

    The first is the barrel. From what I've seen, most Enfield's have an extra couple inches of barrel extending in front of the front sight mount. Mine doesn't so I'm guessing that either the front sight was moved forward or somebody chopped the barrel down.

    The second is the handguard. The one I have is the sporterized version that's only one piece and extends from where the trigger is to maybe a little more than halfway along the barrel and is only underneath it. Once again from what I've seen the normal Enfield's have a lower foreguard and two upper handguards that are held together with 2 barrel bands. I've tried removing the handguard by removing the trigger guard assembly and the locking screw just forward of the trigger. The stock seemed to be completely stuck and I could barely get it to budge.

    Any advice on all of this? I'll try to post some pictures of the gun itself and I guess the main question is can I unsporterize this? If so, what do I need to do and undo from the rifle?

    As you can probably tell I'm not an Enfield expert, so please let me know what I don't know or if I got something wrong.....wouldn't be the first time I was wrong on this gun.

    Thank you!
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    A Collector's View - The SMLE Short Magazine Lee Enfield 1903-1989. It is 300 8.5x11 inch pages with 1,000+ photo’s, most in color, and each book is serial-numbered.  Covering the SMLE from 1903 to the end of production in India in 1989 it looks at how each model differs and manufacturer differences from a collecting point of view along with the major accessories that could be attached to the rifle. For the record this is not a moneymaker, I hope just to break even, eventually, at $80/book plus shipping.  In the USA shipping is $5.00 for media mail.  I will accept PayPal, Zelle, MO and good old checks (and cash if you want to stop by for a tour!).  CLICK BANNER to send me a PM for International pricing and shipping. Manufacturer of various vintage rifle scopes for the 1903 such as our M73G4 (reproduction of the Weaver 330C) and Malcolm 8X Gen II (Unertl reproduction). Several of our scopes are used in the CMP Vintage Sniper competition on top of 1903 rifles. Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Specializing in premium ammunition and reloading components. Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

  3. #2
    Advisory Panel tiriaq's Avatar
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    Your sported No. 4 looks to be in decent condition as a shooter, as is. In addition to the alterations to the woodwork, the barrel has been shortened. Restoration to service condition wouldn't be practical.

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    Legacy Member Sunray's Avatar
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    "...Mine doesn't..." It's been cut. Lotta sporteriser's cut the bayonet lugs off for some reason. They took off the front sight protector too. And the rear sight.
    You don't have a hand guard. Those go on top forward of the receiver. The forestock has also been cut.
    "...tried removing the hand guard..." Some forestocks are just tight and need a thump with a plastic mallet.
    Go here for the old Surplus rifles how-to files. The No. 4 is under Enfield-Enfield Savage Rifles. Then Enfield No. 4. Kind of slow loading, but it's worth the slight wait. Good pictures and text how-to. Dropbox - SurplusRifle.com Files - Simplify your life
    How's the headspace? Thousands of Lee-Enfields have been assembled out of parts bins with zero QC. Check that before you do anything. Headspace gauges can be purchased or rented without much fuss. Fixing it, if it's bad, isn't as horrible with a No. 4 Rifle as it is with a No. 1. No. 4 bolt heads are numbered and it's usually, but not always just a matter of going up 1 number. The issue is that the numbers go from 0 to 3, run about $30 each and if you're already at #3 you need a smithy who knows about 'em to machine the barrel. And bolt heads are getting scarce. Gunparts has 0's and nothing else. Still way better than a No. 1 Rifle. You need a handful of bolt heads at $30 each to try with gauges until you find one that works.
    "...can I unsporterize this..." Likely cost you a lot more than it's worth. You'd need to replace the barrel, stock and buy all the wee metals bits that add up at an alarming rate. And that's if you can find 'em all. For example, that front sight guard at Gunparts(not the only source. They also continue to call a No. 4 an SMLE and list what parts they have under that. A No. 4 is not an SMLE.) runs $5.75, when they have any. $3.15 for the screw that keeps it there. A plain, unfinished, front hand guard with no metal starts at $13.60. There are no complete stock sets any more. No complete rear sight assemblies either. The 2 position 'battle sight' runs $14.85. All those wee parts add up in a hurry.
    Now after all that, you can check the headspace and just replace the rear sight or put on one of the no gunsmithing scope mounts(that was probably there before you got it) that use the rear sight bases, scope the thing and have a hunting rifle that is capable of killing any game in North America, including big bears(the .303 Brit has killed elephants with one shot).
    Sort out what you want to do then come back and ask about reloading.
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    Legacy Member Bigwagon's Avatar
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    Having recently acquired two sporterized No. 4s, I can share some insight into the process of restoring them. Most of the metal parts aren't too difficult to find. I managed to assemble two complete sets of hand guards, HF retainers, bands & swivels, front and rear sights and sight protectors from a combination of Sarco, Gunparts Corp. and eBay. The difficult to find and expensive parts are un-cut fore stocks. Expect to spend at least $100 for a decent one, and it will take a good bit of hunting. IMO, with the shortened barrel, that rifle is not worth restoring. Shoot it as-is or look for a complete rifle.

  7. #5
    Advisory Panel browningautorifle's Avatar
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    Yes, you're in the US so parts are around. You need about everything though...except bolt, receiver, mag and trigger mech parts. Maybe you can live with the butt. The rest is as a list of parts from the book, everything.
    Regards, Jim

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    Legacy Member alextheabrachial's Avatar
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    Thread Starter
    First let me give my thanks for all the replies. I greatly appreciate all the input.

    I forgot to mention that I removed the rear sight myself yesterday since part of it was broken off. Ordered a replacement from Numrich.

    As to the headspace, I think it's fine since I've shot this gun before, albeit that was a few years ago, although I haven't changed anything. Basically I thought the gun was broken so I just left it in the safe for a couple years and then took it out yesterday after doing a lot more research on the gun and found that it was in working order.

    Now I've never done anything with gunsmithing besides build two AR's, so I could be wrong on the headspace, but I never had any problems shooting it.

    So if I leave it the way that it is and just replace the rear sight and assume that the headspace is fine, could this be used for a hunting gun?

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    Contributing Member CINDERS's Avatar
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    Unless you like tolling the web I would just go and buy an Un-Bubba'ed one you can get reasonable 4's cheap enough as its going to cost you to have buy a NOS barrel and then to have it fitted.
    Also if the action needs to have one full turn taken off the barrel means something is not right with the receiver or bolt as the recoil areas may be worn having lost their hard facing you also then have the problem of the barrel being to short for the fore stocks.
    As actions do not stretch as people so often say as the armorers here have explained at great length many times about this myth.

    " Basically I thought the gun was broken so I just left it in the safe for a couple years and then took it out yesterday after doing a lot more research on the gun and found that it was in working order."
    The only time I never had a rifle I purchased checked by my gunsmith it turned out to be U/S a No.1 MkIII with a very large rust divet in the chamber so bad I had to bash the bolt handle on a strainer post to open it after firing the first round from it, had to have the barrel replaced, always have the guns checked by a gunsmith whom knows the Lee Enfields.

    As for replacing ther bolt head the numerical system for them is all over the shop and to just swap for a higher number does not really work as has been stated here by Bruce in Oz the action utilizes a helical rear locking action so you have to know what your doing to ensure the Head space is correct and the recoil is taken evenly by those surfaces. See the chart for how the No. bolt head relates to the different sizes found for that No.

  10. #8
    Advisory Panel browningautorifle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alextheabrachial View Post
    could this be used for a hunting gun?
    That's exactly what it is. It was done for hunting and has likely done it's share.
    Regards, Jim

  11. #9
    Legacy Member Snowman1510's Avatar
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    Take it from me, I just thought this same way a few months ago about restoring a rifle. Just save up a bit more and buy one that hasn't been monkeyed with, it'll be cheaper in the long run. Trust me, I've done this twice now and have scrapped my new project after the 2nd one finally opened my eyes. Same as you, my project was a Lee Enfield No. 4 Mk. 1.
    “There are three kinds of men. The ones that learn by readin’. The few who learn by observation.
    The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” - Will Rogers

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    Legacy Member Daan Kemp's Avatar
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    For occasional hunting, it seems fine as is. If you want a 'as issued' there are too many things to replace, buy one that is complete.

    The previous owner cut off the front 2 inches of barrel, giving it that funny look. It would look better balanced if the front sight was moved back about two inches. I would also get a competent machinist to cut off the magazine flush with the trigger guard, fit a new floorplate to the magazine, remove one leaf of the magazine spring. Gives you a smooth look, better carry and five shots, more than enough for hunting. Or buy an aftermarket five shot magazine.

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