+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 20

Thread: 2 WWII and 1 WWI helmets found - one with Camouflage Cover

Click here to increase the font size Click here to reduce the font size
  1. #1
    Legacy Member AZshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Last On
    07-14-2023 @ 01:28 PM
    Location
    Training Development/engineer
    Posts
    35
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    03:05 PM

    2 WWII and 1 WWI helmets found - one with Camouflage Cover

    Hi all, I'm just starting to learn helmets, and picked these up this weekend.



    I think the lined one with the camo cover is WWII, the lining appears to be. It's a Firestone 22. It has a name written on the leather. But I can't get the liner out of the helmet, gently pulling it. I want to check the helmet itself, and the cover. Is there a trick to getting the liner apart from the steel?



    Also, does the camo cover look like it's WWII era, or later? I know nothing about that, but my dad was USMC in the late 1950s, and everything he brought back had a similar camo pattern.

    The WWI appears original by looking at the bales and seam connection. It has a partial leather strap inside. ZB49 stamp inside.



    The far right helmet has the front seam, and 652C it appears inside. Swivel bales, sewn on straps, metal buckle. It looks like the original cork and paint to me. Agree?

    How'd I do for $20 for all?!
    Information
    Warning: This is a relatively older thread
    This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.
    Last edited by AZshot; 09-22-2018 at 02:02 PM.

  2. # ADS
    Friends and Sponsors
    Join Date
    October 2006
    Location
    Milsurps.Com
    Posts
    All Threads
    A Collector's View - The SMLE Short Magazine Lee Enfield 1903-1989. It is 300 8.5x11 inch pages with 1,000+ photo’s, most in color, and each book is serial-numbered.  Covering the SMLE from 1903 to the end of production in India in 1989 it looks at how each model differs and manufacturer differences from a collecting point of view along with the major accessories that could be attached to the rifle. For the record this is not a moneymaker, I hope just to break even, eventually, at $80/book plus shipping.  In the USA shipping is $5.00 for media mail.  I will accept PayPal, Zelle, MO and good old checks (and cash if you want to stop by for a tour!).  CLICK BANNER to send me a PM for International pricing and shipping. Manufacturer of various vintage rifle scopes for the 1903 such as our M73G4 (reproduction of the Weaver 330C) and Malcolm 8X Gen II (Unertl reproduction). Several of our scopes are used in the CMP Vintage Sniper competition on top of 1903 rifles. Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Specializing in premium ammunition and reloading components. Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

  3. #2
    Legacy Member Sunray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last On
    03-29-2021 @ 03:01 PM
    Location
    London, Ontario
    Posts
    1,053
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    06:05 PM
    The M1icon Helmet was virtually identical for the whole time they were issued. The cover is a Viet Nam era colouring. 1965 and later. Should be a manufacturer's ink label in it. Might be a repro though. If it's not coming off easily it may be stuck with rust. Oh and $20 is cheap. Even with the rough condition.
    Go here. U.S. helmet covers
    Spelling and Grammar count!

  4. Avoid Ads - Become a Contributing Member - Click HERE
  5. #3
    Legacy Member AZshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Last On
    07-14-2023 @ 01:28 PM
    Location
    Training Development/engineer
    Posts
    35
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    03:05 PM
    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunray View Post
    The M1icon Helmet was virtually identical for the whole time they were issued. The cover is a Viet Nam era colouring. 1965 and later. Should be a manufacturer's ink label in it. Might be a repro though. If it's not coming off easily it may be stuck with rust. Oh and $20 is cheap. Even with the rough condition.
    ...
    Desert southwest here, we don't get much rust. Also, from the estate of the owner, seriously doubt these old timers would have any repro stuff, they had generations of stuff at their house being sold. Also, I don't know what you mean the M1 helmet was virtually identical throughout production. The "virtually" is the details. Front seam, types of bales, types of cloth and color in the liner, rivet types all can tell you precisely if it's WWII issue. That's what I'm trying to confirm here.

    Do other experts agree it's a Viet Nam covering though? Because the liner is WWII. The other helmet is WWII, and when I get the cover off, I'll let you know on the other helmet.
    Last edited by AZshot; 09-22-2018 at 06:16 PM.

  6. #4
    Advisory Panel browningautorifle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Last On
    Today @ 01:16 PM
    Location
    Victoria BC
    Posts
    29,838
    Real Name
    Jim
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    03:05 PM
    The liner may just be choked in with sand or time. Be gentle extracting it and don't use the suspension harness to pull, I imagine you already ruled that out. Just work with the edge of the liner, it may have been crammed in tight and grit holds it. The liner looks early, is there a grommet in the front center? The covers originally were HBT I think, like the head harness...which that harness appears to be. Once you get it apart, we'll see more.

    Yes, you did fine for cost.
    Regards, Jim

  7. #5
    Legacy Member AZshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Last On
    07-14-2023 @ 01:28 PM
    Location
    Training Development/engineer
    Posts
    35
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    03:05 PM
    Thread Starter
    Hi, got it out. It's olive drab on top, and it has the grommet in the center front. The steel helmet looks newer, has the rim seam in the rear, and 1196A inside. The camouflage cover is reversible, and has a DSA stamp and 64 date. Here is what I'm thinking happened at the owners house. Someone took the WWII Firestone liner, which belonged in the earlier steel pot, and put it in this newer steel pot.

    I've corrected that, putting the liner into the other steel pot with the front seam. Does it appear they match up, in eras?

  8. #6
    Advisory Panel browningautorifle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Last On
    Today @ 01:16 PM
    Location
    Victoria BC
    Posts
    29,838
    Real Name
    Jim
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    03:05 PM
    Yes, the old steel pot and the liner from your description...should match. The newer steel outer still isn't junk though. Pics of the liner would help these guys though...to identify... Have a look here and you can identify the outer by the heat lot code. The liner too... US M1 steel helmet forum
    Regards, Jim

  9. #7
    Legacy Member AZshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Last On
    07-14-2023 @ 01:28 PM
    Location
    Training Development/engineer
    Posts
    35
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    03:05 PM
    Thread Starter
    Thanks, will continue to check the newer steel one. It has a code 1196A inside. I put the camo cover with it.
    Last edited by AZshot; 09-23-2018 at 11:00 AM.

  10. #8
    Advisory Panel browningautorifle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Last On
    Today @ 01:16 PM
    Location
    Victoria BC
    Posts
    29,838
    Real Name
    Jim
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    03:05 PM
    Here's another site to help you with that... Dating M1


    Lots of info there, yours is a WW2 shell. Also pictured is a little of the early HBT cover I spoke of so you can see...
    Regards, Jim

  11. #9
    Legacy Member Charlie303's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Last On
    03-21-2024 @ 05:25 PM
    Location
    Somerset, UK
    Posts
    172
    Real Name
    Charles
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    10:05 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by AZshot View Post
    How'd I do for $20 for all?!
    Bargain of the week I'd say.

    As Sunray says, Vietnam camo cover. Just like the first M1icon helmet I bought, had a Vietnam era cover and underneath the M1 helmet was a front seam WW2.

    WW2 M1s were made by the McCord radiator and manufacturing company of Detroit who made 90% of the 22 million helmets made during WW2. The other 10% were made by the Schlueter Manufacturing Company of St Louis. Schlueter stamped an 'S' under the heat lot number, so I'm assuming yours are McCord.

    Both are WW2 manufacture. The front seam 652C would have been made end September / beginning October 1943, and the rear seam 1196A March 1945. Very nice original paint/cork. Front seam M1 Has a later, possibly Korea, chinstrap. WW2 straps were a lighter OD.

    The liner looks very nice, WW2. Its missing the nape band at the back and the leather chinstrap. J Murray (https://jmurrayinc1944.com/) does good repros, but it would be nice to fit original WW2 - if you could find them. Probably cost a lot more than the 3 helmets! As Jim says, be very careful with the webbing in the liner, can be very delicate after 70+ years.

    Can we see some more pics of the liner and the rear seam M1?

    Great find, thanks!

    Cheers.

  12. #10
    Legacy Member AZshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Last On
    07-14-2023 @ 01:28 PM
    Location
    Training Development/engineer
    Posts
    35
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    03:05 PM
    Thread Starter
    Thanks, I'm learning. I'm thinking the rear seam M1icon was reconditioned for Vietnam. It has a buckle that I think was barely used in WWII, plus it's the darker green color. I see two layers of paint on the outside, where there are chips there is an under layer. You don't think that Firestone liner went in this one?







    ---------- Post added at 11:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:33 AM ----------

    And the Firestone liner.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 03-22-2013, 11:54 AM
  2. Need help w/age of this Camouflage Navy Seal Team Shirt
    By flashbak58 in forum Vintage Military Gear
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 04-17-2012, 10:20 AM
  3. Refurbing WWII Helmets
    By Harlan (Deceased) in forum Vintage Military Gear
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-11-2011, 11:19 AM
  4. WWII Relics found on Saipan
    By painter777 in forum M1/M2 Carbine
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 12-16-2010, 06:00 PM
  5. WWII German rounds found in IRAQ
    By TheLongshot00 in forum Milsurps General Discussion Forum
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 02-14-2010, 02:22 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Raven Rocks