Pre-Ban vs. Post-Ban M14/M1A

[floydthecat]

In the market for an M1A-M14. There are plenty of them out there, I want to pick the right one. I realize the basic differences in the AR family, but I come across a few SA pre-ban guns. I would rather have a forged receiver, so I lean-away from the SA. Not bashing SA and I own several SA weapons. Is there any advantage to the pre-ban SA in terms of quality/durability vs. the recent production M1A's?

Information

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[Tom in N.J.]

In the U.S. "pre-ban, post-ban" went out the window with the demise of the federal "assault weapons ban" in 2004. Post ban military style weapons were restricted in cosmetic features such as bayonet lugs, flash hiders, and the like. In New Jersey there is no pre-ban.. when it is banned you can not have it. New Jersey has the most restrictive firearms controls in the U.S.A. M1As were to be banned in NJ but SA Inc took off the bayonet lug and changed the logo. A number of states have state laws that mimic the old federal assault weapons ban that are in effect today. Take care in travel.

[fjruple]

In the U.S. "pre-ban, post-ban" went out the window with the demise of the federal "assault weapons ban" in 2004. Post ban military style weapons were restricted in cosmetic features such as bayonet lugs, flash hiders, and the like. In New Jersey there is no pre-ban.. when it is banned you can not have it. New Jersey has the most restrictive firearms controls in the U.S.A. M1As were to be banned in NJ but SA Inc took off the bayonet lug and changed the logo. A number of states have state laws that mimic the old federal assault weapons ban that are in effect today. Take care in travel.

Not quite right. You were given the option of registering the rifle as an assault weapon for $50.00 US in which you can also keep the hi-cap magazines as well. Additionally there is also a NJ attorney general's determination that M14 style rifles that if they meet the criteria of "being substantially identical" more than two "evils" are banned. Evils being bayonets lug, flash hider, threaded barrel, pistol grip. detachable magazine, etc. If you have one with two evils or less you are good to go. Other than being banned by name such as the Chicom M14S, you should be good to go. Of course that will be changing here in NJ shortly.

---------- Post added at 07:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:10 AM ----------

Good information. The couple of M21’s I’ve seen look very mil-spec and do include Winchester barrels, Winchester TG and TRW bolts. The builds I’ve seen look exactly like the rifle I want. Fulton seems to have a very good reputation in the Carbine world and they really like their stuff. I’ll have to seriously consider your remarks concerning their receivers.

I believe Fulton's receivers are just a follow on to the Armscorp receivers made by Jack Freise in Baltimore. The commercial M21 is just a receiver marking to avoid the assault weapons ban in those states were M14s are ban by name. The M21 receiver can be just on a standard semi-auto rifle or one that is tricked out with all of the bells and whistles. single or double lagged receivers, NM barrels, scopes, etc. The military M21 is just a M14 NM with a Leatherwood scope and ART mount.

There is no consistency in the QA of most of the semi-auto receivers being produced. They all have there up and and downs in different periods of production. The worst was probably Federal Ordnance.

[floydthecat]

I've learned a lot here about what NOT to consider. I can get one built locally on a BULA receiver in the price-range I am looking at. The "built-up" guns likely don't carry the warranty that a NIB SA does and I think I need to consider that.

[browningautorifle]

The "built-up" guns likely don't carry the warranty that a NIB SA does

Matter of fact a home built rifle has exactly NO warranty. They have NO idea what you did with their receiver or parts.

[floydthecat]

Maybe a first time buyer would want to place some emphasis on the lifetime SA warranty to the original purchaser. I have had good success with the SA warranty staff. Here is an example of a builder's support plan.....(paraphrased) "We do not test-fire or fit-n-finish. You are advised to have the weapon checked by a competent gunsmith prior to firing". Now isin't that a comforting thought. Dosen't take long for me to pass on that build. Just stuff some parts in a gun and sell it.

[fjruple]

Matter of fact a home built rifle has exactly NO warranty. They have NO idea what you did with their receiver or parts.

Jim-- I agree additionally if you should have to sell the rifle for any reason and if the rifle should blow up in the new owner's face, you cold be looking at a heavy law suit since the builder is probably not a gunsmith by trade.

---------- Post added at 07:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:49 AM ----------

I recently looked at M1 Grand that someone put together to be on the cheap. The individual used a CAI cast receiver (way out of spec). I used SA 1963 .30-06 Garand barrel with a .308 Winchester insert (comes out easily, US Navy tried this during the Vietnam War and junked the idea when in rapid fire the insert would come out, firing a 7.62mm NATO round in a .30-06 chamber is not a good idea), an Italian modified op rod which 1/2 inch too short for the gas cylinder. All of the other parts are well used and are heavily sand blasted and refinished but the stock was very nice from a Beretta M1. Definitely a disaster waiting to happen.

Cheers

--fjruple

[browningautorifle]

Are you also asking how to recognize a cast receiver v/s a forged receiver? Are you asking what's the difference between an M14 and an M1A? I know there's more to your question... Just because they are marked to Springfield Armory doesn't make them cast...

[floydthecat]

Are you also asking how to recognize a cast receiver v/s a forged receiver? Are you asking what's the difference between an M14 and an M1A? I know there's more to your question... Just because they are marked to Springfield Armory doesn't make them cast...

Correct Jim. One has to start with a rather short question and expand on it as the thread grows. I know the difference between a "real" M14 and an M1A. Sellers seem to often use the term M14 for either. I am not looking for a full-fledged M14 with selective fire...etc. I'd love to have one, but I imagine they are pretty scarce. I am having difficulty discerning a cast from a forged receiver based on descriptions, pictures and my limited knowledge concerning the M14/M1A family. I have no idea at the moment how to discern a forged or cast receiver on an SA. Thought there may be some way to tell from the serial number or differences in the eras between, B4 and after pre-ban.

[Brian Dick]

I had the privilege of meeting the late Hook Boutin who is probably one of the most famous and esteemed Armorers the U.S. Army has ever produced. He was on the team that designed all of the NM modifications for the M14/M21 in the early 1970's. He serviced and did match accurizing on my 1978 SA M1A and a Smith Enterprise M-14 back in 2013 when he was 89 years old and still sharp as a tack. I flat out asked him which commercial receivers were the best in his experience working on them all for so many years. Bear in mind the SA Inc. is a casting, SEI forged from bar stock and LRB forged the same as the original M14 was. He told me the SA Inc receivers were the best. Thee was no hesitation or other questions asked so there you go. My M1A is now in M21 guise and on it's second barrel. I'd challenge anyone to hurt the receiver in a lifetime of use. Investment casting has also come a long, long way with quality control in the past 20-30 years. Food for thought.