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Thread: Pre-Ban vs. Post-Ban M14/M1A

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    Legacy Member floydthecat's Avatar
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    Pre-Ban vs. Post-Ban M14/M1A

    In the market for an M1Aicon-M14. There are plenty of them out there, I want to pick the right one. I realize the basic differences in the AR family, but I come across a few SA pre-ban guns. I would rather have a forged receiver, so I lean-away from the SA. Not bashing SA and I own several SA weapons. Is there any advantage to the pre-ban SA in terms of quality/durability vs. the recent production M1A's?
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    Contributing Member Tom in N.J.'s Avatar
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    In the U.S. "pre-ban, post-ban" went out the window with the demise of the federal "assault weapons ban" in 2004. Post ban military style weapons were restricted in cosmetic features such as bayonet lugs, flash hiders, and the like. In New Jersey there is no pre-ban.. when it is banned you can not have it. New Jersey has the most restrictive firearms controls in the U.S.iconA. M1As were to be banned in NJ but SA Inc took off the bayonet lug and changed the logo. A number of states have state laws that mimic the old federal assault weapons ban that are in effect today. Take care in travel.

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    Advisory Panel browningautorifle's Avatar
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    Are you also asking how to recognize a cast receiver v/s a forged receiver? Are you asking what's the difference between an M14 and an M1Aicon? I know there's more to your question... Just because they are marked to Springfield Armory doesn't make them cast...
    Regards, Jim

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    Legacy Member floydthecat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by browningautorifleicon View Post
    Are you also asking how to recognize a cast receiver v/s a forged receiver? Are you asking what's the difference between an M14 and an M1Aicon? I know there's more to your question... Just because they are marked to Springfield Armory doesn't make them cast...
    Correct Jim. One has to start with a rather short question and expand on it as the thread grows. I know the difference between a "real" M14 and an M1A. Sellers seem to often use the term M14 for either. I am not looking for a full-fledged M14 with selective fire...etc. I'd love to have one, but I imagine they are pretty scarce. I am having difficulty discerning a cast from a forged receiver based on descriptions, pictures and my limited knowledge concerning the M14/M1A family. I have no idea at the moment how to discern a forged or cast receiver on an SA. Thought there may be some way to tell from the serial number or differences in the eras between, B4 and after pre-ban.

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    Advisory Panel Brian Dick's Avatar
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    I had the privilege of meeting the late Hook Boutin who is probably one of the most famous and esteemed Armorers the U.S. Army has ever produced. He was on the team that designed all of the NM modifications for the M14/M21 in the early 1970's. He serviced and did match accurizing on my 1978 SA M1Aicon and a Smith Enterprise M-14 back in 2013 when he was 89 years old and still sharp as a tack. I flat out asked him which commercial receivers were the best in his experience working on them all for so many years. Bear in mind the SA Inc. is a casting, SEI forged from bar stock and LRB forged the same as the original M14 was. He told me the SA Inc receivers were the best. Thee was no hesitation or other questions asked so there you go. My M1A is now in M21 guise and on it's second barrel. I'd challenge anyone to hurt the receiver in a lifetime of use. Investment casting has also come a long, long way with quality control in the past 20-30 years. Food for thought.

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    Legacy Member floydthecat's Avatar
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    I know that Ruger has taken the art of investment casting to a new level. Ruger handguns are considered by many to be one of the best and most rugged guns on the market. My brain is obviously fixed on forged steel receivers as a result of my years of experience with M1 Carbines and having personal experience with cast components in/on guns that fail. I'll likely never use this M1Aicon enough to hurt the receiver anyway. I just have this itch that I must scratch. I may wind-up with an SA and my intentions were to determine if the early guns were better guns. That can be the case with most any manufacturer. S&W simply is not what it use to be. I favor my 90's Brazilicon family of SA 1911's over the current production guns. I'll usually be looking at a 25-year old gun B4 I purchase a new one.

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    Contributing Member rcathey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flydthecat View Post
    I just have this itch that I must scratch.
    Ah yes. The inexorable urges of the firearm enthusiast. I once bought one of the Chinese copies of the Winchester model 1887 shotgun. Sold it a couple months later because it “wasn’t real.” I feel your pain!

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    Legacy Member pickax's Avatar
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    The term now used with SAI M1Aicon's is the 'golden age' rifles produced from 80's through very early '90s. They always had cast receivers, but in those years used a high percentage of GI surplus parts. Bolts, barrels, oprods ,trigger groups, sights etc. , and these are considered superior to rifles built using commercial parts since GI surplus has dwindled.
    There are sites devoted to this rifle in all it's forms and manufacturer's .

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    Legacy Member floydthecat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Dickicon View Post
    My M1Aicon is now in M21 guise
    Dick...school me a little on the M21 receiver. I think that is a Fulton...right? What particular attributes belong to the M21 and would that be a good mil-spec forged receiver. I have seen them on built-up guns.

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    Advisory Panel Brian Dick's Avatar
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    The M21 is just a bog standard M14, (in my case M1Aicon), rebuilt to NM specification from flash hider to buttstock. They were equipped with Leatherwood ART telescopes and were the standard U.S. Army sniper rifle until the adoption of the Remington M24 in the late 1980's. The Fulton receivers are castings and not as good as the SA Inc. in my opinion. If you want a real forged receiver that's pretty much identical to GI sans the FA features, the only one out there is LRB. SEI is also a forging but from bar stock which is different. I'm happy with my SEI but it took a while to iron the bugs out of the rifle.

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