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Thread: Large Bore Rolling Block of Unknown Origin

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    Member Hcompton79's Avatar
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    Large Bore Rolling Block of Unknown Origin

    I picked up this Rolling Block en-route on a hunting trip over the previous weekend. It's not in the best condition, but I was intrigued as it has a very large bore size as compared to what I was familiar with Rolling Blocks being chambered in.

    I have had a difficult time identifying what model this is or when it was made. Particularly, I noticed that the rear sight dovetail (this example is missing the rear sight) is located much closer to the receiver than other examples that I have been able to compare. The tang is heavily worn, but I can make out some markings. The top line appears to end in "U.S.iconA." and the bottom line ends with "April 17th 1866", maybe a patent date?



    The groove diameter of the barrel is measuring about .594" (60 caliber?) however I used a chunk of beeswax to arrive at this measurement as I did not have a large enough piece of lead to properly slug the barrel. It has a very slow twist rate which to the best of my measurement is about 1 turn in 72 inches. The barrel measures exactly 39" from muzzle to the back of the receiver. The breech block has a centerfire pin.

    What I do believe is that there is something odd going on with the breech end of the barrel. It does not mate with the breech block when closed and does not appear to have an extractor cut out, and almost looks as if some metal has been peened into the chamber area.

    I really don't have any experience with Rolling Blocks so any help provided will be appreciated.







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    Advisory Panel green's Avatar
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    Looks like a "Transformed" model a US 58 cal rifle musket converted to breechloader.

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    Contributing Member #1oilman's Avatar
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    I believe it is a Remington rolling block not sure what model it is

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    Really Senior Member jamie5070's Avatar
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    Could be a Bannerman Special. I doubt the barrel is original. I have a spencer 3 band rifle that has what appears to be a trapdoor barrel on it. The rear sight dovetail is close to the action, like yours.

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    Advisory Panel green's Avatar
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    Examine the breechblock which has a piece dovetailed into it. This was done on the "Transformed" rifle as the 58 cal ctg was too wide for the regular rolling block breech block.

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    Member Hcompton79's Avatar
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    It does have a piece of metal dovetailed into the breech block with semicircular protrusions coming off of both sides. So, it does appear to be the "transformed" rifle. Some photos I found show a similar configuration, evidently it was a conversion of Civil War Springfield rifled muskets into breech-loaders similar to the trapdoor or Britishicon Snider-Enfield.

    Does anyone know what type of Springfield Rifle Musket these were converted from? I'd like to find a rear sight, I probably won't be able to shoot this rifle due to the breech damage, but it will make an interesting wall hanger.

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    Advisory Panel Patrick Chadwick's Avatar
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    According to George Layman, "Remington Rolling Block Military Rifles of the World", pp. 16-18, "all Remington-made Transformed rifles started life as M1861 or M1863 muskets".
    Last edited by Patrick Chadwick; 10-24-2018 at 06:12 AM.

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    The "Transformed" 58 cal rolling block used the original M1861 or M1863 rear sight. The ones made with the piece added to the block were the early conversions later made had a wide solid block.

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    Really Senior Member Sunray's Avatar
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    What's the stamp on top of the chamber? It looks like a Swedishicon/Norwegianicon 12.17mm x 44 RF Remington Rolling Block(very big WHAG). Remington rolling block Swedish Military Single shot rifles
    "...large enough piece of lead..." 12 gauge shotgun slug. Or a musket ball.
    Spelling and Grammar count!

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    Member Hcompton79's Avatar
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    There is no discernible stamp on the top of the chamber area, what looks like such in the last photo is a series of dings and dents.

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