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    Contributing Member mrclark303's Avatar
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    The Japanese Garand

    Evening all,

    I was just reading up on the fascinating late war Japaneseicon reverse engineered Garland.

    My 1962 edition of Small Arms of World book mentioned they were rather poorly made with violent recoil...

    I guess these rifles are very rare, I don't suppose any of our members have had the opportunity to inspect one?
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    A Collector's View - The SMLE Short Magazine Lee Enfield 1903-1989. It is 300 8.5x11 inch pages with 1,000+ photo’s, most in color, and each book is serial-numbered.  Covering the SMLE from 1903 to the end of production in India in 1989 it looks at how each model differs and manufacturer differences from a collecting point of view along with the major accessories that could be attached to the rifle. For the record this is not a moneymaker, I hope just to break even, eventually, at $80/book plus shipping.  In the USA shipping is $5.00 for media mail.  I will accept PayPal, Zelle, MO and good old checks (and cash if you want to stop by for a tour!).  CLICK BANNER to send me a PM for International pricing and shipping. Manufacturer of various vintage rifle scopes for the 1903 such as our M73G4 (reproduction of the Weaver 330C) and Malcolm 8X Gen II (Unertl reproduction). Several of our scopes are used in the CMP Vintage Sniper competition on top of 1903 rifles. Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Specializing in premium ammunition and reloading components. Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

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    Contributing Member Bob Seijas's Avatar
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    The quantity made is in dispute but the Type 5 is well known. There are several in collector hands, maybe as many as a dozen. I chased them for years... I wanted to pay $800 when they were $1,000 -- then when I was willing to go the thousand they were $1,500 and on up from there. I never got one, now they bring something like $20K
    Real men measure once and cut.

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    Legacy Member RCS's Avatar
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    Japanese Type 5

    Some if not Japaneseicon copies of the M1icon Rifle were chamber for the 7,7x57mm cartridge which was unique to this Type 5 rifle. Why the change by 1 mm is unknown as the standard service cartridge is 7,7x58mm. I have a photo of a clip of 7,7x57 that I will try and postAttachment 98394

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    Nice one RCS envious I is....

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    Contributing Member mrclark303's Avatar
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    Thread Starter
    Thanks for the responses guys, I must admit im playing catch up with this one, I had no idea they modified the service cartridge too.

    I would hazard a guess the fractional reduction in case length was to aid possible extraction related issue.

    I can't see what difference 1mm would really make, but perhaps just enough.

    The suggestion of violent recoil in my book, would certainly suggest a good deal of refinement was still required and must have been a handful to deal with, considering the relatively small build of the average Japaneseicon soldier.

    Anyone know how many were made?

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    Contributing Member Bob Seijas's Avatar
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    Quantity

    Amounts vary but Wikipedia says: At the time, only 100 guns were completed out of the 250 in the workshop. Twenty of them were taken by the Allies at the Yokosuka Naval Arsenal on Honshu after the end of the war.
    Most guesses that I have seen in the past say 50 made and parts for 50 more that were not completed. That sounds more reasonable based on what has been seen.
    Real men measure once and cut.

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    Legacy Member RCS's Avatar
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    I recall reading that the Japaneseicon Navy was involved with the change in the cartridge to 7,7x57mm which used a 173 gr bullet. Also recall some incomplete examples of this rifle in some collections. The Japanese would have captured both the gas trap and gas port M1icon rifles starting with the Philippine invasion in 1942

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    Contributing Member rcathey's Avatar
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    I’ve always wondered why they’d bother reinventing the wheel.
    “Hey, that’s a great design. We should start making 30-06 and the guns to go with it.”
    Seems a lot easier to make a different ammo than to make a whole new autoloader.

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    Advisory Panel browningautorifle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcathey View Post
    “Hey, that’s a great design. We should start making 30-06 and the guns to go with it.”
    I often wondered why they didn't just start making them as was...almost direct copies.
    Regards, Jim

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    Legacy Member RCS's Avatar
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    Not that easy to copy the Springfield M1icon rifle - IHC had problems in the 50's and they (IHC rifles) became the favorite gift to the third world nations.

    But you really have to credit Winchester, during the 1939 - 1941 time period, they were working on their own 30-06 semi auto, developed the M1 carbine
    and started manufacture of the M1 rifle, and it worked !

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