The Japanese Garand

[Bob Seijas]

During WWII Springfield got a couple of the new German MG-42 machine guns and tried to reverse engineer it... and failed. It ain't so easy!

BTW, GCA just got a Letter to the Editor from a member: "... about 1976 Sumner's Hardware in Ft. Knox, KY received a large group of guns from an estate. I remember examining a Japanese Garand. I didn't buy it and have regretted it for the rest of my life. I think it was $125. It was it sad shape. The action was jammed, the stock damaged, and the magazine box was missing. I didn't know what a treasure it really was. Lost opportunity."

[browningautorifle]

I think it was $125.

Cheap at twice the price...

[limpetmine]

International had problems with their production because Springfield purposefully gave them incorrect dimensions on some critical parts. H & R came to help I.H. and that's where their deceit was found. Egg on faces all around. Most of the M-1's that went to Iran were I.H.'s, from what I've read.

Not that easy to copy the Springfield M1 rifle - IHC had problems in the 50's and they (IHC rifles) became the favorite gift to the third world nations.

But you really have to credit Winchester, during the 1939 - 1941 time period, they were working on their own 30-06 semi auto, developed the M1 carbine
and started manufacture of the M1 rifle, and it worked !

[mrclark303]

International had problems with their production because Springfield purposefully gave them incorrect dimensions on some critical parts. H & R came to help I.H. and that's where their deceit was found. Egg on faces all around. Most of the M-1's that went to Iran were I.H.'s, from what I've read.

It's astonishing Springfield behaved that way!

Was it sanctioned from the top, or disgruntled engineering staff with an axe to grind, taking it on their own backs?

Always something new to learn on Milsurps...

[RCS]

Springfield was not too kind to Winchester either but then again Winchester felt that the M1 was not ready for production. It all worked out
and there was a war going on.

I find it difficult to believe that the wrong was data was provided to IHC, that is like sabotage

[Bob Seijas]

IHC had a huge problem with jamming that they couldn't solve, had to suspend production for three months. It was eventually traced to the wrong spring tension on the function firing machine. The setting was provided by SA. It was found by HRA who allegedly said that SA had done the same thing to them when they started, but since they were experienced with gun manufacture, they found it out quickly. This was related to me in the early 1980s by the guy who was in charge of the rifle manufacture at IHC.

[mrclark303]

It's hard to see this wasn't carried out with some official nod, as surely SA engineering staff must have been on site at IHC to assist in getting production underway.

You could argue that such an act during a time of national emergency is out right sabotage and treasonous behaviour.

Quite astonishing.

[pocketshaver]

off topic somewhat, but didn't that happen in WW1 with producing the 1911?

And in world war 1 there was a fiasco with the French light machine gun, the Chauchat.. aka shoo shoo by the us troops. The issue is that when the French were forced to make it in 30-06, there were "dimensional issues" in the chamber.... history has claimed it was an "accidental math error by French engineers converting the imperial 30-06 chamber drawings"

[RCS]

The Germans also converted captured examples to fire their 7,92mm cartridge.

Also read that FN in Belgium converted WW1 Franch Chaucat during the 1920's to fire the 7,92mm cartridge for Poland. A lot of work to rebuild these lmg's in something that might work.

[BEAR]

It's stories like these that really raise the hair on the back of my neck. It makes me think of the young men that died because SA wanted to retain control of small arms design and production.
I think back on the debacle that was the rifle trials that led to the adoption of the M14. The T48 was clearly the better design.
Then there is the M16 travesty that led to many men dying in Vietnam because SA didn't want the M14 replaced.
And then there is the after war rifle trials between the M1903 and the M1917.
Springfield Armory's war cry "Not designed here by us, not adopted or built by us".
So, how much truth was there in the low numbered 1903 problem or was it SA trying to live longer in a low money environment.
I have a low numbered RIA that was a OK National Guard target rifle. It was sold at auction in the 50s and the owner used it for hunting deer every year. And such dangerous rifles were rebuilt and used in WWII.
Sorry about my rant, didn't mean to detract from the main topic of the Japanese Garand.
BEAR