"T" Scope Bracket Origin / Recognition Parts 1 and 2

[ArtioZen]

Part 1 - A little expert advise on this bracket that came to me holding a genuine No32mk3 scope on a mismatched No4Mk1T.

It seems to be British pattern right down to the thumb screws and springs. However it is unmarked and the caps are numbered and oriented with letter stamps only "J" and "J J".

Any advice to its manufacturer / origin is greatly appreciated.

Part 2 will feature a bracket I know a little more about...

Wishing you all the best 2019!Attachment 98563Attachment 98564Attachment 98565

Information

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[ArtioZen]

I happened across a Sante Fe "Delux Sportster" and added it to my laboratory / collection. This was a rarer model produced by the originators of the term "jungle carbine" in the late 50's - this one based on a real No4Mk1T that was sold out service

The rifle was professionally neutered and polished, the body and barrel re-blued and the bolt chromed.

Sante Fe had a contract with a Japanese manufacturer for the familiar 5 round magazine and this cast and machined scope bracket. It is shiny and slick and nicely black, but also unmarked - not even for cap location and orientation. It does use the familiar taper lock screws but sinks them deeper into counterbored holes. The thumbscrews are springless and have a screwdriver slot to lock and not lose.

The assembly came holding a Pan Technics fixed 4 power scope - which may have been original to the Sante Fe build - I don't know if they offered options. I may swap the scope for a No32mk2 replica for shiggles.

I've struggled with the question of preserving this piece to show the 1950s USA / Sante Fe history - or "restore".... I am so far going with the (sane) former thoughts and can enjoy this as a deer gun when tuned in, it still drives tacks back to back.Attachment 98567Attachment 98568Attachment 98569Attachment 98570Attachment 98571

Let's not get all angry and shouty all at once!

[Roger Payne]

The first bracket is a UK made Rose Brothers variety. Is there a logo on the rear inner face by the machining for the dovetail slot (rear pad mating surface), or anywhere else for that matter? I cannot see a JG or KD anywhere on the main strut but it has had a black paint job. Mind you, even if there is nothing there the general 'look' makes it Rose Brothers. Not sure whether the variant cradle cap marking is an after market 'improvement' or whether it could be a very early or trials variant - but have never come across it before on UK made No32 brackets, & I don't know why they would deviate from an accepted system of numbering. Any chance of close ups of the J's?

Restoration of the butchered 4T would be doable but a major job because of the mutilation of the body by the removal of the rear sight axis pin 'ears' & the charger bridge. It would require some pretty specialist & very precise welding.

[ArtioZen]

Per your request above - nope, not a single identifiable mark - not even suggestive dents or scratches..
Attachment 98594Attachment 98593Attachment 98595Attachment 98596

Here is the mismatched T assembly out with me for evaluation on a sunny January day, 32 degrees, blustery to 3mph. Hole punching a 2" bullseye at 50 yards.
Attachment 98597

The Sarco repro No32mk1 is out of focus..am thinking of disassembling the whole thing to photo document and share. The mismatched real No32mk3 has frozen turrets for elevation and windage..thorough rebuild required.

[Roger Payne]

Most interesting. Have never seen cradle caps on a UK made No32 bracket marked with letters only before. They certainly look to be original, or at least, done a long, long time ago. Notwithstanding that it certainly looks to be a Rose Brothers bracket, even down to the slightly elevated rough bit in the casting where the riser was.

[bigduke6]

Always a catch 22, when looking at bringing something back to what it was or should be, as its a No4 T maybe worthwhile doing if any trace of old scope number etc, you only have to look at the thread regarding the savage dating, Breakeyp,s rifle has had some work...... although an account of its work is documented, something you don't find too often, well not here in the UK anyway.....

[ArtioZen]

Can anyone with an authentic / intact trials T rifle comment on the scope cap codes used? Anything like "J/ JJ"?

[Warren]

Henry: How about some shots straight on at the left side. If you want to send them to me direct that is fine.
I have some REL brackets that are a bit different. They are originals and not sure who made them.
I did a bit of an photo essay on the mounts along time ago and think I posted it here.
If not let me look and see what I can find as I have about a dozen different types of brackets but unfortunately I cannot get to them for a while.

[Surpmil]

Personally I think you have a very early production bracket there. The skeleton job was a type made in Japan in the 60s, so I heard somewhere (take it for what you will)

[Peter Laidler]

I have seen one or two brackets and never seen them with single or double letters. But that doesn't say that such items don't exist and it certainly looks like the real McCoy as everyone else says.