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  1. #1
    Legacy Member Anzac15's Avatar
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    Gew 88 markings

    Bought this 1891 Spandau '88 a couple of days ago as a project (and I do mean project..barrel bands, bolt head, band clip, a few screws missing, what was I thinking?) and it has a few markings that I haven't seen on a lot of Gew 88s. First is the 'NM' (New Material)..I've seen this on a good many kar88's, but can't remember seeing it on a lot of long rifles. Next is the 'Z' marking on the top of the receiver, which I believe means a rebarreling around 1896 (correct me if I'm wrong) fittingly enough, the barrel also is marked 'NM'.
    Next are the fraktur marks. Here you can see the three on the right of the receiver, but there is a fourth mark to the left of the 'S' (this rifle is marked S twice) I can't tell if that is a fourth fraktur, or something else.
    Lastly, the rifle has the metal clip covering the magazine hole, but no charger guides, and no notch in the receiver for the longer 7.92 round.
    Its definitely going to be a winter project. Incidentally, if anyone has a pile of un-Turked 88 parts, Id be interested in them!
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    Advisory Panel Patrick Chadwick's Avatar
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    On the receiver ring: "Z" was applied from 1895 to indicate that the "Züge" (grooves) had been cut to a depth of 0.15+0.025mm.

    On the receiver ring: "S" was applied from June 1895 to indicate that the barrel has the enlarged chamber for the "S" cartridge with Spitzer bullets.

    On the barrel jacket (please provide a complete photo of this area): The jacket has been renumbered to match the receiver. This does not automatically mean that the barrel has been replaced - maybe it was a replacement jacket! Remove the jacket to see what is marked on the barrel itself. (Photo please!)

    Yes, n.m, was applied to the Gew.88. After 130 years, whether or not one sees a lot of them is a statistical accident. The barrel should be marked on the cylindrical end section with

    n.m. + manufacturer designation PLEASE PROVIDE A PHOTO.
    Last edited by Patrick Chadwick; 02-06-2019 at 09:48 AM.

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    Legacy Member bob q's Avatar
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    The Z means it has the last barrel design from 1896+ , a .311-.323 . Since your rifle was made in 1891 , the barrel has to be a replacement . The NM is the new material stamp for the later barrel steel . The s just means the rifle was cleared at one time to be fired with s ammo, and the stamp is overridden by the Z stamp . Your rifle appears to be a rare Gew-88 s . I would need a photo of your rear right to be sure . You also have the top ejector for the clip . The rifle is a Gew-88s , rebarreled to .323 , sighted for S ammo , and modified for top ejection.

    ---------- Post added at 04:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:09 PM ----------

    You also have the dot stamp meaning the barrel shroud has reinforced solder .

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    Legacy Member Anzac15's Avatar
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    Here are some more pics. Barrel markings, and shroud markings. Unfortunately the rear sight is missing, along with bolt release, bands, band clip, bolt head, quick release swivel (told you it was a project)
    Of particular interest to me, and I've just noticed it taking these pics, are the screws within triggerguard screws. Now I'm almost certain I've never seen these before. Early capture screws?

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    Advisory Panel Patrick Chadwick's Avatar
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    "Since your rifle was made in 1891 , the barrel has to be a replacement." Correct.

    For what follows, the source is: Wacker & Görtz "Handbuch Deutscher Waffenstempel", Page 363 ff.
    Since this book includes copies of the official acceptance marking schemes, it may be taken as being authoritative on these matters.

    Barrel date is post-August 1896 (introduction of series/batch number for barrel deliveries).
    BB as manufacturer's initials appears to be unidentified.

    "The s just means the rifle was cleared at one time to be fired with s ammo, and the stamp is overridden by the Z stamp ."
    - Not so, according to the book cited above (also on P363).

    The Z mark for the altered grooves was introduced in 1895 (i.e. before the nmBB mark). The S mark for the modified chamber was introduced in June 1905.
    Last edited by Patrick Chadwick; 02-06-2019 at 07:29 PM.

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    Legacy Member bob q's Avatar
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    Without the rear sight on the rifle it is much harder to tell if it is a Gew-88s . Is there a S over crown stamp on the side of the buttstock , with the condition it may be hard to see .Yes early capture screws . As I said the rifle was rebarreled AFTER 1896 . I get my information from original Germanicon documents and over 100 original rifles , not someone else's book . There are mistakes in the books , and sometimes people misinterpret the meanings . Do you own over 100 Gew-88's [ or borrowed that many from museums ] ? The rifle is what I said it was and even without the rear sight or S crown , I am about 90 % sure it is a Gew-88s .

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    Advisory Panel Patrick Chadwick's Avatar
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    "The rifle is what I said it was and even without the rear sight or S crown , I am about 90 % sure it is a Gew-88s ."

    I never said it wasn't. As for the rest, at least I take the trouble to specify my sources, so that others may check them.

    "Do you own over 100 Gew-88's"

    What is your problem? I did not disagree with your conclusions. And presenting a "mine is bigger than yours" argument is boasting, not a qualification.

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    Legacy Member Anzac15's Avatar
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    Took a loop to the marking next to the S, and it is a crown over 'KC'.

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    Regarding the clip covering the mag hole and this being a top ejector...I was doing a little research, and I found that the modified top ejecting magazine had a little plunger built into the mag to push the clip upward when the button inside the triggerguard is pushed. The rivet on the mag cover works as a base for the spring, and is positioned nearest the trigger. As you can see, the rivet is away from the trigger (put on backward?) and there is no little plunger inside the mag. The cover has definitely been with the rifle for a very long time as the patina matches.
    The more I get around '88's, the more confused I get..lol.

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    Legacy Member Anzac15's Avatar
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    One more thing (I swear)..is this/was a marking? Its on the right of the butt. One moment it looks like a possible profile of an eagle(?), the next it looks like just a small gouge.

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