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    Contributing Member Steve762's Avatar
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    Do Mk VII .303 bullets really upset in .......

    The Mk VII .303 military FMJ bullet was designed with a light nose filler to cause the bullet to "up set" or yaw quicker increasing the wound channel. Did this design feature actually produce the desired result? Were any studies done to prove the theroy?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve762 View Post
    The Mk VII .303 military FMJ bullet was designed with a light nose filler to cause the bullet to "up set" or yaw quicker increasing the wound channel. Did this design feature actually produce the desired result? Were any studies done to prove the theroy?
    The Mk7 bullet has the light material in the tip to move the centre of gravity towards the rear.

    The de-stabilization was a happy accident, similar to the 5.45x39

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    Really Senior Member Alan de Enfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve762 View Post
    The Mk VII .303 military FMJ bullet was designed with a light nose filler to cause the bullet to "up set" or yaw quicker increasing the wound channel. Did this design feature actually produce the desired result? Were any studies done to prove the theroy?
    The wound profile would certainly suggest it causes 'some damage'
    Once 'Dum-Dums' were outlawed it was certainly ahead of its time in damage caused.
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    Advisory Panel Lee Enfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan de Enfield View Post
    The wound profile would certainly suggest it causes 'some damage'
    Once 'Dum-Dums' were outlawed it was certainly ahead of its time in damage caused.
    It certainly tumbles,

    To simplify without digging out the books:
    The mk7 174gr bullet was intended to be a 160gr, but stability problems resulted in a need to increase the bearing area,and move rhe centre of gravity rearward without increasing the foreward weight, to accomplish this they used a lighrer material at the tip as filler which helped to create the tumbling effect which mk7 ball was noted for.

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    Really Senior Member Alan de Enfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Enfield View Post
    It certainly tumbles,

    To simplify without digging out the books:
    The mk7 174gr bullet was intended to be a 160gr, but stability problems resulted in a need to increase the bearing area,and move rhe centre of gravity rearward without increasing the foreward weight, to accomplish this they used a lighrer material at the tip as filler which helped to create the tumbling effect which mk7 ball was noted for.
    Originally the 'filler' was wood, but during one of the many 'conventions' at the time (Such as the Hague Convention) it was suggested that the un-sanitary nature of wood could/would lead to infections in the wound (never mind your arm had been 'blown off' you might get an infection) so the filler was changed to (primarily) Aluminium / Aluminum but over time 'paper fibre' and 'plastic' was also used.


    Interestingly the MK8 did not have the 'filler tip'
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    Mine are not the best, but they are not too bad. I can think of lots of Enfields I'd rather have but instead of constantly striving for more, sometimes it's good to be satisfied with what one has...

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    Part of the problem with the development of the Mk Vll was that the overall cartridge length had to stay very close to the OAL of the Mk Vl.

    Making a round of shorter overall length would have caused "issues" with the feed systems of every Maxim / Vickers gun in the inventory, for starters. Having to develop new sighting tables was work enough. Then there were all the rifles that needed both new sights as well as magazines that would reliably retain AND feed the different bullet shape.

    Furthermore, because of the way the standard, Cordite-fueled ammo was made, the actual bullet length also had to stay the same. The "loose" bullet sat on the glaze-board disc, which, in turn, sat on top of the Cordite "bundle" in a partially necked case. This collection of components was then run through final forming and "stab-crimping" stages.

    Note that the Mk Vll bullet has a cannelure, but NOT one that lines up with the end of the case neck to accept a roll or "finger" crimp. The cannelure is primarily there to retain a bituminous or 'grease" water-proofing sealant.

    The past is a very odd place at times, with the untold billions of Mk Vll rounds as an example of: "If it looks silly but it works, it ain't silly".

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    Some interesting experiments with .303 Britishicon ammunition, by the "Box O' Truth"
    British arsenal ammo compared to other countries .303 ammo is most revealing. Fun and thought provoking article,

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    Thread Starter
    Many thanks gents for all the info and history. Steve

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    Really Senior Member Alan de Enfield's Avatar
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    Just for Info : Article 23 of the "Laws & Customs Of War On Land" Hague IV
    Signed October 18th 1907 and amended many times in subsequent years with the addition of new clauses :

    ARTICLE 23
    In addition to the prohibitions provided by special· Conventions, it is especially forbidden:

    (a) To employ poison or poisoned weapons;

    (b) To kill or wound treacherously individuals belonging to the hostile nation or army;

    (c) To kill or wound an enemy who, having laid down his arms, or having no longer means of defence, has surrendered at discretion;

    (d) To declare that no quarter will begiven;

    (e) To employ arms, projectiles, or material calculated to cause unnecessary suffering;


    (f) To make improper use of a flag of truce, of the national flag, or of the military insignia and uniform of the enemy, as well as the distinctive badges of the Geneva Convention;

    (g) To destroy or seize the enemy's property, unless such destruction or seizure be imperatively demanded by the necessities of war;

    (h) To declare abolished, suspended, or inadmissible in a Court of law the rights and actions of the nationals of the hostile party.

    A belligerent is likewise forbidden to compel the nationals of the hostile party to take part in the operations of war directed against their own country, even if they were in the belligerent's service before the commencement of the war.
    Last edited by Alan de Enfield; 02-09-2019 at 05:06 AM.
    Mine are not the best, but they are not too bad. I can think of lots of Enfields I'd rather have but instead of constantly striving for more, sometimes it's good to be satisfied with what one has...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan de Enfield View Post
    (e) To employ arms, projectiles, or material calculated to cause unnecessary suffering;
    It's the same argument about several other modern projectiles and the idea that they are "Designed" to do this or that to increase damage in military use... Just a side product of design.

    Regards, Jim

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