+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 19

Thread: Bren Lubricants

Click here to increase the font size Click here to reduce the font size
  1. #1
    Member tj214's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Last On
    Today @ 12:23 AM
    Location
    US
    Posts
    27
    Local Date
    09-17-2019
    Local Time
    08:51 AM

    Bren Lubricants

    For Capt Laidlericon (and other experts on this site):

    Newbie here. I’ve got your Sten book and am deeply impressed by your research depth and writing clarity. I’m in the US and own a semi-auto Sten Mk III and Mk V/5, which take me back to my childhood in the ‘50s when I thought the Tommys, Diggers, and Paras at Tobruk and Arnhem were the coolest guys ever. I’m retired US military and not a reenactor (but, hey, nothing wrong with those guys . . . ).

    I request your help understanding Britishicon WW II gun lubricants. I’ve searched the internet for hours and am either doing poor searches or the info I need just ain’t there except in bits and pieces. Plus, the milsurps sellers all seem to use different nomenclature when describing the various lube containers.

    I’ve just had my torch-cut Inglis Bren Mk II professionally rebuilt to semi-auto and am in the process of assembling a full complement of original cleaning, maintenance, & spare parts equipment for the gun.

    I’ve collected all the physical tools, so the only remaining challenge is the identification of the lubes (and containers) as included in the Bren wallet and carryall, and their modern equivalents. My searches culminated upon finding your “1945 Miscellaneous Armourers Training Notes” (Laiderler[sic]-Misc.pdf) on MilSurps.com:
    • Oil “A” - preservative & lubricant
    • M.80 - preservative & lubricant, possibly the same as or equivalent to Oil “A”(?)
      • These two were apparently identified as “standard service oils” and also as “G.S. oils” but I can’t find the meaning of “G.S.”
    • R.D.1179 graphited grease - for tropical use at higher temps (above 40° F); high quality heavy motor oil approved as emergency substitute in the Besa (cannot confirm also for the Bren)
      • To be carried in “bottles, oil” in approximately 1/2 oz volume. It appears “bottle, oil” is what’s today commonly called an oiler (tube) in plastic or brass
    • Oil, low cold test, No. 1 (C.W.D. 726a) - for use below 40° F, and if the temp falls to -40°F/-40°C is to be diluted with 20% (or more) paraffin (since the US and UK have completely different definitions of this word, I assume this means what we in the US would call “kerosene”)
      • To be carried in any “can, oil, M.G.” of existing pattern, painted green for identification
      • It appears the “can, oil, M.G.” is the much larger (than the “bottle, oil”) metal or plastic can with the brush in the lid
    • As far as I can tell, lubes other than "Oil, low cold test, No. 1” could also be carried in the “can, oil, M.G.;” hence the color coding
    • Certainly not all these lubes were carried at the same time, but I want to obtain them all for my wallet & carryall, which I guess shows the historian in me!

    Also, is it correct:
    • “Bottle, oil” looked like this (different styles, colors, and materials) and was intended/used ONLY for graphited grease, including in Enfield Riflesicon? Part of my confusion is the conflation of "oil" and "grease;" in my US military experience these were distinctly different substances.


    • “Can, oil, M.G” looked this this (different styles, colors, and materials) and was intended/used ONLY for the lower viscosity weight oils Oil “A,” M.80, and “oil, low cold test, No. 1:”



    Would you explain what each of these lubes is/was, and their modern equivalents? I know this is an esoteric issue, but you’re the acknowledged expert.

    Thanks much.

    Dave

  2. # ADS
    Friends and Sponsors
    Join Date
    October 2006
    Location
    Milsurps.Com
    Posts
    All Threads
    Banner AD Space Available - Click HERE to Inquire We specialise in military utensils and artefacts such as helmets, daggers, medals and badges, etc.  The on-line store is intended for personal browsing and searching of collecting objects. All items are provided historical value only and can be used for home collection or other purposes except of fascism, Nazism or other extremism manifestation or its propaganda. LIMITED TIME OFFER FROM THE AMERICAN GUNSMITHING INSTITUTE: Get Immediate Online Access To AGI's NEW Armorer's Course for Glock Pistols, Covering Every Generation of Glocks, Including the Latest Model 42/43 and Double Stack Pistols for ONLY $7.00! Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Chuck in Denver ... Buy-Sell-Trade .. Guns, Cars Motorcycles We pride ourselves on being the new lowest price listing service, and the simplest to use. If you need to buy or sell collectible firearms or any firearm in your legal possession, then this is the place for you. If you’re a big collector clearing house, or other seller that could benefit from a Premium seller account, then we can also support you here at Gunonline.com. Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

  3. #2
    Contributing Member Flying10uk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 07:11 PM
    Location
    South West England, United Kingdom
    Posts
    3,286
    Local Date
    09-17-2019
    Local Time
    01:51 PM
    This list makes several suggestions for "G.S." but I would suggest "General Service", however, there are probably other possibilities.

    https://assets.publishing.service.go...ions_dec08.pdf


  4. Avoid Ads - Become a Contributing Member - Click HERE
  5. #3
    Advisory Panel
    Peter Laidler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Last On
    Today @ 05:32 AM
    Location
    Abingdon, Oxfordshire. The home of MG Cars
    Posts
    16,150
    Local Date
    09-17-2019
    Local Time
    01:51 PM
    I'll explain the lineage of the oils when I can find the time.......

  6. #4
    Member tj214's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Last On
    Today @ 12:23 AM
    Location
    US
    Posts
    27
    Local Date
    09-17-2019
    Local Time
    08:51 AM
    Thread Starter
    Thanks much. Standing by.

  7. #5
    Advisory Panel
    Peter Laidler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Last On
    Today @ 05:32 AM
    Location
    Abingdon, Oxfordshire. The home of MG Cars
    Posts
    16,150
    Local Date
    09-17-2019
    Local Time
    01:51 PM
    The old OIL A and the low temp oil was replaced in the late 40's for the nice/sweet smelling OIL, OX-52. This was replaced in the mid 70's by OIL OX-18. A very thin and runny oil. Armourers didn't really believe that this was a good replacement so the use a GREASE, Graphite XG-340 was introduced to compensate and use on sliding parts

    As for GRAPHITED grease and GRAPHITE grease is that graphited is a normal sliding grease with graphite powder added during the mixing process at manufacture. Graphite grease is the grease produced during the breakdown of graphite with an oli mix and much thicker than graphited grease. GS = General service, as in Binoculars, GS or Lorry, Bedford QL, 3 ton, GS

    Nobody really took the time and effort to remove the various oil cans and bottles. But the graphite grease came in little kakhi tubes or big 4lb tubs! IN went the tubes and OUT went the oil bottles. Alas, according to the QM's staff of blanket stackers, the CES had to be complete even though the various bits weren't used.

    So, from the 60's there were only two lubricants for the Bren. OIL OX-52 or 18 and Graphite Grease. Then there was another used between the butt and the return spring tube (slather it on as thick as you can if you don't mind.....) PX-11 and XG-279

    Others will hopefully chime in.........

  8. The Following 3 Members Say Thank You to Peter Laidler For This Useful Post:


  9. #6
    Contributing Member Flying10uk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 07:11 PM
    Location
    South West England, United Kingdom
    Posts
    3,286
    Local Date
    09-17-2019
    Local Time
    01:51 PM
    Tube of graphite grease seen here with this holdall and some variations of the oil can.

    Various tubes of grease and oilers.

    Also shown is a Canadianicon holdall and wallet.
    Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	s1978L4HoldallAsPerText.jpg‎
Views:	78
Size:	196.0 KB
ID:	100557   Click image for larger version

Name:	CansOilMk3Labelled.jpg‎
Views:	74
Size:	838.4 KB
ID:	100558   Click image for larger version

Name:	1944canadianholdalllabelled.jpg‎
Views:	65
Size:	615.8 KB
ID:	100559   Click image for larger version

Name:	1944canadianwalletlabelled.jpg‎
Views:	33
Size:	1.43 MB
ID:	100560   Click image for larger version

Name:	GreaseTubes.jpg‎
Views:	36
Size:	413.7 KB
ID:	100561  
    Last edited by Flying10uk; 05-20-2019 at 07:48 PM.

  10. The Following 3 Members Say Thank You to Flying10uk For This Useful Post:


  11. #7
    Member tj214's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Last On
    Today @ 12:23 AM
    Location
    US
    Posts
    27
    Local Date
    09-17-2019
    Local Time
    08:51 AM
    Thread Starter
    Thanks to all. Does anybody have modern equivalents for each of these named lubes?

  12. #8
    Contributing Member Flying10uk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 07:11 PM
    Location
    South West England, United Kingdom
    Posts
    3,286
    Local Date
    09-17-2019
    Local Time
    01:51 PM

  13. #9
    Member tj214's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Last On
    Today @ 12:23 AM
    Location
    US
    Posts
    27
    Local Date
    09-17-2019
    Local Time
    08:51 AM
    Thread Starter
    Thanks. I just ordered the next to last one available.

  14. #10
    Really Senior Member Kev G's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Last On
    06-01-2019 @ 09:57 AM
    Posts
    544
    Local Date
    09-17-2019
    Local Time
    01:51 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Flying10uk View Post
    Tube of graphite grease seen here with this holdall and some variations of the oil can.

    Various tubes of grease and oilers.

    Also shown is a Canadianicon holdall and wallet.
    I think credit should be given to Tom Ready (Bear) who put all the depicted 'red back' display pictures shown.

    KG

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Bren parts kit and Book 'The Bren Gun Saga" by Dugleby
    By colfi in forum The Bren LMG (Light Machine Gun)
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 12-18-2015, 10:42 PM
  2. Why do the Bren Mk3 and Bren MkII rear sights have the same part number?
    By Lee Enfield in forum The Bren LMG (Light Machine Gun)
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-26-2012, 03:03 PM
  3. Just a snippet of Bren info for you Bren fiends............
    By Peter Laidler in forum The Bren LMG (Light Machine Gun)
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 08-15-2010, 11:57 AM
  4. Bren Parts Set/Display Gun and a South African Bren
    By epidoc in forum The Bren LMG (Light Machine Gun)
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 04-05-2010, 12:19 PM
  5. BP lubricants; my recent saga; long
    By 2571 in forum Black Powder
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 03-19-2009, 09:41 AM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts