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Thread: A Couple Seriously Hideous Winchester 70s

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  1. #11
    Contributing Member mmppres's Avatar
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    You have a pretty penny. Even thou they are up graded by the previous owner to there own target preference. They will still bring premium money to some one starting out in the target field. They sell for alot more than the parts. I sell tons of parts an to break up a perfectly good rifle is a last resort. Just hold firm an once word gets out what you have in the shooting field they will sell.

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    A Collector's View - The SMLE Short Magazine Lee Enfield 1903-1989. It is 300 8.5x11 inch pages with 1,000+ photo’s, most in color, and each book is serial-numbered.  Covering the SMLE from 1903 to the end of production in India in 1989 it looks at how each model differs and manufacturer differences from a collecting point of view along with the major accessories that could be attached to the rifle. For the record this is not a moneymaker, I hope just to break even, eventually, at $80/book plus shipping.  In the USA shipping is $5.00 for media mail.  I will accept PayPal, Zelle, MO and good old checks (and cash if you want to stop by for a tour!).  CLICK BANNER to send me a PM for International pricing and shipping. Manufacturer of various vintage rifle scopes for the 1903 such as our M73G4 (reproduction of the Weaver 330C) and Malcolm 8X Gen II (Unertl reproduction). Several of our scopes are used in the CMP Vintage Sniper competition on top of 1903 rifles. Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Specializing in premium ammunition and reloading components. Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

  3. #12
    Legacy Member Daan Kemp's Avatar
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    In the target shooting sport rifles are 'improved' to meet the match or sport rules and regulations. The barrels are often changed when they are 'shot out', other parts changed as regulations change, etc.

    The value in these target rifles mustn't be compared to original out of-the-box ones, but as a tool-in-being for the sport. Thus the condition of the various parts directly relates to the purpose, the specific shooting sport it has been fine tuned for. With this in mind they would probably make perfect entry level or beginner equipment for that specific shooting sport, which has already been mentioned in this thread. If their origin could be determined, ie previous owners, it would be even better as it could be sold as "kjlkj" rifle that scored "ooii" at "oijoj" match/es.

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    Contributing Member rcathey's Avatar
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    I appreciate all the advice. I have posted at the Winchester forum too.

    Sounds like the long and short of it is finding out exactly what kind of competition it was used in.
    Then, perhaps, I’ll be able to find some comparable sales of other rifles.
    For reference, I only paid about $425 for each rifle. Since I didn’t know what I was buying, I took a crack at the parts value. Those sights are worth quite a bit, I know that.

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    Legacy Member vintage hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daan Kemp View Post
    In the target shooting sport rifles are 'improved' to meet the match or sport rules and regulations. The barrels are often changed when they are 'shot out', other parts changed as regulations change, etc.

    The value in these target rifles mustn't be compared to original out of-the-box ones, but as a tool-in-being for the sport. Thus the condition of the various parts directly relates to the purpose, the specific shooting sport it has been fine tuned for. With this in mind they would probably make perfect entry level or beginner equipment for that specific shooting sport, which has already been mentioned in this thread. If their origin could be determined, ie previous owners, it would be even better as it could be sold as "kjlkj" rifle that scored "ooii" at "oijoj" match/es.
    Daan, I respectfully disagree, from a collectors POV. In the U.S. pre-64 Winchester Model 70's are collectors items. To my knowledge there were less than 2000 NM Model 70's made, making it amongst the rarest of standard production variants.
    Like it or not,in this case value is most likely to be determined by comparing it to an original new in the box example, which could fetch upwards of $3000+ on a good day to the right person.
    The sights may or may not be worth big money, all depends on maker, model and condition. The rifles themselves, with all the mods, have no collector value left.
    Last edited by vintage hunter; 05-25-2019 at 12:37 PM.

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    Contributing Member rcathey's Avatar
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    Replying to no one in particular:
    Again, I appreciate all the help. It feels like everyone replying has a number in their head but no one has actually said a number, haha.
    (I don’t mean that to sound ungrateful...just an observation.)
    Perhaps I’ll be able to share more details when they’re in my hands.

  8. #16
    Legacy Member Daan Kemp's Avatar
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    Vintage Hunter, we're both right. It depends on your point of view. To me it is a tool to use in competition, to others it is a collectable item in its own right to add joy to a collection. I'm always glad there is space for all of us who love guns.

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    Deceased May 2nd, 2020 Cosine26's Avatar
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    That M70 Target rifle may have a Dunlap style stock but it is not an original Dunlap rifle. I knew and shot with Roy on occasion. I have seen many of his rifles on the firing line though I could never afford one. I doubt very much if a Winchester collector would have much interest in a highly modified target rifle. The stock is not a Winchester original and the rifle has, in my opinion been re-blued. At one time, the Winchester M70 rifle ruled the high power ranges but in recent years, I believe that it has fallen in to disuse. I have not fired in a high power match in ten year so cannot verify this. The value of that rifle is dependent upon its accuracy and what it is to be used for, The rear sight appears to be a MO'S precision rear sight and the front sight is sight containing a bubble level for long range precision shooting. I cannot think of the manufacturers name at the moment. If the rifle retains its accuracy, it is probably OK for big bore rifle matches but may not be competitive. If it maintains it accuracy it is well worth $425. To the high power shooter-handsome is as handsome does. A rifle is a tool of the trade for him/her.
    I agree with vintage hunter. The M70 NM rifle is a rare bird indeed. In over 50 years I have only seen one.
    There were three versions of the M70 target rifles:
    1. The M 70 NM (Essentially a M70 sporter in a Winchester target stock to meet NRA rules). Always in 30-06 caliber
    2. The M70 Target (the same as the NM with a medium heavy weight barrel -probably the most numerous)
    3. Them M70 Bull Gun (same as the Target except with a very heavy barrel and in 300 H&H & 30-06 calibers). I have one of these in 300 H&H
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    Last edited by Cosine26; 05-25-2019 at 03:33 PM.

  10. #18
    Legacy Member vintage hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daan Kemp View Post
    Vintage Hunter, we're both right. It depends on your point of view. To me it is a tool to use in competition, to others it is a collectable item in its own right to add joy to a collection. I'm always glad there is space for all of us who love guns.
    Daan, I agree with you're practical views 100% and apologise if I came across as being argumentative. I took the collectors approach to value assessment in the attempt to convince the owner that he was in for a big letdown if he continued seeing the dollar signs he reported in post 3.

  11. #19
    Contributing Member rcathey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vintage hunter View Post
    he was in for a big letdown if he continued seeing the dollar signs he reported in post 3.
    I still don’t know what to think! Haha

  12. #20
    Legacy Member vintage hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcathey View Post
    I still don’t know what to think! Haha
    As Master Po used to say " have patience young grasshopper". If the initial investment doesn't cause you financial difficulties just just tuck them away for awhile and see what happen on the collectors market. Who knows, in the next few years interest in old school "custom" target rifles could skyrocket. Collectors are strange birds. For as far back as I can remember coins that had a hole drilled had no value and where snubbed by collectors but now, as I understand it, as long as they show good detail some coin collectors are starting to show interest and depending on rarity pay a small premium above melt value. Who knows what the next collectors fad will be. I know what it won't be though, and that's anything I have one of.😁
    Last edited by vintage hunter; 05-25-2019 at 05:31 PM.

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